Lucid Living Topic

[Johan]

JNoise and others - thank you so much for starting this topic and all the replies.

Lucid Living (LL) is my favorite topic too, IMHO it's one of the most beautiful expressions of lucidity one can give. Only those who cannot avoid being caught by labeling and artificial distinctions will not see that what is strived for at one particular moment of the day - ie consciousness during REM-sleep - can also be a useful tool at other moments, like ordinary waking life.

To be continuously aware of the present moment seems to be difficult for many people, and that is absolutely normal. Actually, what we call Lucid Living is the essential part of a lot of traditional religious practices in east and west. Sufis, buddhist monks, hindu yogi, gnostics, all of them share this practice and their religions have developed tools that helps them to realize LL as far as possible. Those meditation techniques vary but they all share the essential component of paying attention - always returning to the present moment, again and again - with some kind of sitting.

My point is, those people practice for years and years and even then they still have so much difficulties to keep their awareness constantly in the present. I personally practice for some years (with ups and downs) and it's still a daily challenge. So don't be too hard for yourself by judging your progress, just keep practicing patiently and eventually you WILL enjoy the fruits of mindfulness. And those fruits include much more than just a lucid dream! It's especially important to be patient during the first months of practice, because you are confronted with the hard part of practice (constantly being confronted with a monkey-mind that always drifts away and still keep the discipline alive) without enjoying the fruits.

Every moment a choice is made: to be drift away or to be here, aware of the present moment. It never stops, and it's difficult because we like to be drift away and dislike the negative sides of the present reality we are confronted with. We are extremely conditioned, all of us, to get away from here and trying to get somewhere else where we think everything will be perfect (a place that is never reached, unfortunately, as long as we strive to get somewhere else). So it's just NOT NORMAL for us to be here, and we even don't realize how much we concern ourselves with useless mind chatter. That's why LL is so difficult.

A crucial advice is to practice LL without keeping a far-away purpose in mind. The point of Lucid Living is Lucid Living. You are here, in the present, or you are there, in daydreams and only one place is the home of LL. Of course, combined with other LD-techniques LL will definitely help you to have more lucid dreams, if you have a lot of patience it will turn out to be the most effective technique for LDing. While I am absolutely not a natural, I have had some beautiful LD's at moments when I didn't practice any other LD-technique but LL. But it is very important not to spoil the present moment with presumpions, theories, judgments, big expectations about the future ("I will maybe have LD's tonight!"), and if they come just watch them without pushing.

In the beginning, practicing LL will oblige you to do things more slowly because you are paying attention to what you are doing, with full awareness, instead of letting the automatic pilot do those things while the mind is concerning itself with zillions of thoughts. However, nothing to worry about, after a lot of practice you will be able to stay aware within the flow of your actions even in moments of stress when things have to be done really fast. It's difficult to explain, it's like the automatic pilot returns but it has become a fully aware pilot. What was subconscious becomes conscious. For example, you will become aware of anger long before the anger reaches the surface and will be able to let the anger go before doing any harm to others. And you didn't have to supress anything (which is rather counterproductive), it just disappeared because you recognized it for what it is. That's just one of the examples of what I mean with "more fruits than just a lucid dream". To become truely aware of oneself and relations with others can only have positive effects for everyone.

Regular practice is crucial so never, never give up, even if it all seems so though and pointless. Once you get a glimpse of what being in the present moment really means, it will definitely encourage you to continue practice. Good-luck !

[Sleepyhead]

Great topic.

I found out about lucid living through this forum and manage some lucid minutes here and there. I know this is just the tip of the iceberg.

One thing I have found which helps is to write about everything I can sense around me at a particular moment. This really makes me concentrate purely on my surroundings with no outside thoughts.

[Dragos]

Hmmm....Lucid living sounds cool, but im kinda confused. Does lucid living mean to concentrate on what you're doing at that moment and pay attention to everything that's going on that has to deal with what you're doing, or does it mean to pay attention to everything around you, people, environment, situation, or does it mean something else.

[Exael]

I suppose everyone has their own way of "lucid Living"...

For me, its just a case of standing still or sitting down, usually in a busy place, and focusing on all of the senses. My friend and I have occasionally sat, waiting for a bus, but focusing our energies on paying attention to everything around us. Trying to take in all the sights, sounds and smells of the immediate world.

In that state of mind, it really makes me think... "this is my perception of reality, I wonder if everyone elses is the same..?"

I hope this at least partly answers your question.

I'd like to hear everyone elses techniques for LL, because I like to hear fresh new ideas!

thank you in advance

[Atheist]

This is a great topic, and certainly one which you wont find anywhere near most other LD resources (Unfortunately).

Something you must realize though, is that this 'state of living' does exist under many other names. It seems appropriate to me to call it 'Lucid Living', and it makes sense to do so, but the technique is by no means new. Simply doing a little research on 'Meditation' will usually return some very similar techniques.

But enough of that. Those of us who are here are luckly enough to be able to read about this magnificent ability.

I started out using LL (Under a different name) as a style of meditation. Although it wasn't called 'Lucicd Living', I have always believed there was a strong companionship between Meditation and Lucid Dreaming. Well, to be honest I like to think there's a direct link between just about any mental excerise and LDs.

My idea of LL is to remove all thoughts from the mind, and try to REALLY comprehend your position not only in the world, but in your own life. I like to take notice of everything around me (Which is quite a lot when I'm in the office), get into the most relaxing position possible, and just observe what's happening everywhere.

Each movement I make is slow and careful, and constantly monitored for any sense of touch I might encounter. I guess when your mind is focused fully on what you are currently doing, not what you did yesterday or will be doing tomorrow, you are more absorbed in the present.

Does anyone use this technique differently?

[Johan]

[LostBoy]

This is one of the best topics I've seen come to these boards so far... even before they switched over I think! Just reading it has started me thinking about some things that are blossoming into personal insight.

The strange thing for me is that it is a timely arival for such a topic because only recently have I begun to practice LL sort of on my own direction. It seemed logical to me to try to become more aware of what I was doing all the time and what was going on around me.
My thought was this.... during a dream there is no sense of self. You are just as much a part of the storyline that your brain is coming up with as any other character in the dream. You go with the flow... strange things seem logical because you are part of the story. When you become lucid what you are in fact doing is allowing your sense of self to take over your point of view in the dream.
So often in my waking life I will come to and realize that I have been going along automatically completeing tasks in my life. You can drive for two hours and not once actually focus on your driving or even your own thoughts! So... it made sense to me to try foster that sense of being in the present during waking moments to strengthen it in my dreams.

What I do is to, whenever it comes to mind, allow myself to be aware of myself first. Am I sitting? Standing? Walking? What does it feel like? What am I thinking about?
Then, keeping that in mind I extend my awareness out to other things. The textures of objects around me... their color and the way shadows sit on them. I try to take note of how things feel and smell... etc. All the while trying to maintain a clear sense of self... that it is I who am looking out on the world and experincing it (this is what I think of as being lucid.... understanding the world at the moment).
Then I sort of imagine that this moment is a dream. This is how real things are in a dream and I am present and in control, free to do whatever I like.

I don't think that you have to find time to do this. Just do it. since you are increasing the amount of attention you are paying to the world you can do it while driving, reading or even in a board meeting (ugh that kind of rhymed). It may be hard to get that all working in your head at first because you aren't used to doing it but you will be able to handle it for longer and longer periods of time. It will also occur to you to do it more often and I think this is what will foster the awakening of your sense of self during the dream with greater frequency.

[Atheist]

LostBoy:

I agree, and I think that's the entire point of the excersise. I guess you could consider it a form of workout. Most people (Well, me anyway) have trouble lifting weights for extended periods of time. After time though, this of course gets easier.

It's the same principal with LL. After a while you might be able to remain in that state for hours at a time. After that, I think the next step is to get the mind so used to it that it does it automatically.

That's my goal anyway. LL, for me, gives me better control over what 'm doing, and I find I don't make any small mistakes due to an absent mind.

[JNoise]

Everybody:

Thank you all so much. My original intent on posting this in its own topic has come to frution and I have all you to thank for it. All your ideas and very interesting and wonderful.

Atheist:

I agree very much. I, too, have meditation for about a year. And with all things, you must start out slow. This parallels (like LostBoy said) with just about anything. Lifting weights, exercise, etc. The fact is, it IS an exercise. It's well known that mental exercise is almost identical in every fashion to physical exercise...look at learning! You start out with something slow and make it a part of you, eventually, it will grow. This is especially true with mental exercises.

I believe all these RC's and xILD's (where x = M,D, etc. ) all boil down to this: Lucid Living. They are all very good techniques and with good practice, they will help increase your LL and thus, your LDs.

So why stop there?

That's what this topic is for. Since LL (and LD'ing in general) is a slow process, if we start our 'training' using LL as well as other techniques, by the time we start having LDs, we will have a great foundation which to start our goal upon (LDs every night).

I hope that everyone can get a chance to see and understand the benefits of such things as LL. Especially for us LD'ers. It's importance and effects are astronomically important.

"All roads lead to LL, in the LD realm".

Thanks again!

[xaitreni]

Indeed.

[Apollo]

Maybe it would be a good Idea to start LL not by concentrating on everyting around you but just on on thing. It is easier if you are just starting it. I was trying to use all my senses while eating an apple.

[LostBoy]

Spot on Apollo. I think thats a great way to start and when I am doing it during the day, I usually build my attention as well. I'll pay attention to how I feel first then usually start watching something (people, plants, patterns of sunlight) as I keep myself in mind then I'll begin listening to whats going on around me... etc.

When you are beginning you might focus as much as you can on just eating an apple but also make sure you are keeping yourself aware that it is you doing so and how it feels for you to be eating.... not just what the apple looks, smells and tastes like. Its that presence of self that creates the lucidity I think.

I try to pay attention to as many things as possible now but a good way to do it at the beginning would be to just pay attention to the details of one thing. Then as you get used to holding all of these details in mind add another things until you have your five senses (or six if you're able to do that. ) all working at once. Sounds good to me.

[Johan]

[Laesdaw]

Ha ha... XILD. Xylophone Induced Lucid Dream?
Hey, people have come up with weirder ones.

[LostBoy]

I think this topic should be a sticky. I know we're developing a lot of them up there but it seems sticky worthy to me. I think its a valid type of excercise to help people attain a greater degree of lucidity and it would be helpful perhaps to have a permanent location for it.