For all that think OBEs are real part II

[Atheist]

Traveller:

This is exactly why I think people are underestimating their subconscious mind. When you tape a playing card to a window, even without realizing it, there is a chance your subconscious mind was able to track the card and predict which one it was based on where it was in the deck - even if it was shuffled.

Also, flying to an area of your town you haven't seen before is equally flawed. It's highly likely you've seen your entire city somewhere, even in the most obscure photo on the wall of your library. You just don't realize it because it's not available to your conscious memory.

[Traveller]

About the card thing the idea of it is to identify a card that your subconscious mind couldn't possibly know. If your extremely carefull about not seeing the other side of the card there is no way your subconscious will know what it is. About predicting it from the position in the deck that is highly unlikely if it's shuffled well several times without looking at any of the other cards but to aviod anything like that it's best to have a friend carefully shuffle and place the card so there is no way for you to see it. I did this one a few times which is hard but I had a friend set the card up in the next room which I didn't access to be sure that I had no way of knowing the other side of the card. The point is I had no possible way of knowing what that card was in the physical I didn't even see the deck which was shuffled and that's how it should be setup.

With flying to another area you do it with a place that you couldn't have been to where there is no question about that. If you have doubts about a place in your city go to a different city that you have never seen for sure. It's also a good idea to try going into a public building that you have never been in then go back the next day. Anyone can find a place that they have never seen before it's not possible for your subconscious mind to know what every place around you looks like then for it to miracuously recall the location in detail when you dream it.

[Traveller]

One more thing you make it sound like the subconscious can perceive everything accurately, just saying if it was real you’re making it look like it's impossible to test because the subconscious can supposedly figure this all out. If you set it up well so your mind has no possible way of seeing or guessing something remote then there is no way that the information about it will be in your subconscious mind.

I was atheist before I started obe'ing and proving it to myself so I am very skeptical about this and extremely thorough and careful when I test it myself. I have identified many things that I couldn't have possibly perceived without being separate from my physical body but I'm not trying to convince people of my experiences I'm just trying to suggest ways that they can test it first hand. If people test these sort things while setting it up carefully that should be enough proof for them. Whether science thinks it's proven or disproved those are only words the only way for people to know is to open up there minds and try these types of experiments themselves because seeing is believing while actual experience always beats out those words and personal opinions.

[Atheist]

[madhuri]

[sparky]

I`m so excited about this topic I couldn`t wait to read all the replies to post my own. Though I have no way to prove it, I have no doubt that O.B.E`s are real for the simple fact that me and my sister a had simultaneous O.B.E. as kids. Me and my sister were watching a miniseries by Shirley McClaine on t.v. called out on on a limb some 15 years ago or so. I don`t remember every single detail about the experience because it was so long ago. But I do remember sitting indian style on the floor in a dark living room when we seemed to float upwards through the ceiling and into the night sky. As I noticed my house getting smaller and smaller in the distance I noticed a thin thread that seemed to be attached to my house. But as we rose higher I started to grow fearful of not being able to get back home and before I knew it I was back sitting in front of the T.V.

Over time time I seemed to block out the events of that night until recently
when my research on the subject made me realize exactcly what happened that night. Niether one of us were sleep when this happened so I know that lucid dreaming isn`t the only way to have an O.B.E., So I remain hopefull that I will reach this state again one way or the other.

[otyg]

The first thing I would do if I got an OOB experience would be look at my alarm clock, remember the time, look away, look again, remember the time, and when I wake up I look at the clock to see if the time in the OOB was correctly compared to IRL time. Is that a good test to see if the OOB is real?

[Sleepy]

Okay, I got some examples of AP and you can judge yourself.

OBE=AP I believe

My first two APs happened like lucid dreams. I was quite interested in In Ap, but was trying to get LD downpat before going into it deeply. I researched it alot and got alot of info from a friend who did it naturally.
Well anyway, I was in my bed(sorta of) and "woke" up. I decided to test if this was a dream and I noticed that it felt like RL before I even touch the lamp(touch activated). It didn't work, and I can't remember if my hand hit it or went through it, but I was floating the next moment above my body. I thought this was a lucid dream due to the light check and it was definately REAL fealling, I noticed everything in the room seemed different and was sorta darkened, I felt that darkness was collapsing on me. I soon Woke up and decided to try to re-enter the same dream(I forgot the acronym ). I was in the same situation and was beginning to feel the same way with everying darkening out. I decided that would spin around to keep the "dream afloat. It's work for me before but in this case, It DID absolutely nothing. I also saw my body below me while spinning(which later led me to question if this was a LD). When I woke up I felt vibrations all over my body.

This could have been a lucid dream or a AP, but the one thing that brings me to believe this might have been a AP, is that The spinning trick to keep dreams afloat did absolutely nothing(it seemed to actually be counter effective) and the vibrations afterwards. I heard that in AP, if you get far away from your body, you could get sucked back in. Well I didn't really move away since I was too amazed by what I was doing.


Second, my friend happens to be a Natural LD and AP person. I've checked up what she said and it checked out. Plus she was quite uncomfortable talking about it and it would be quite hard to fake her face expressions(she eventually got more comfortable). Well anyway, she pretty much explained nearly everything about AP(LD she knew too, but since she did it naturally, she didn't know how to teach me it). As for her AP actually influences real life, she could go to something called the akashic records while on the AP and look up the future or past. She told me about 2 encounters with the Akashic records which turned out to be true the next day. Okay, it relies on trust, but given how she knew her stuff completely and was able to explain all the dimensions to me I think could give her the benefit of a doubt.

Personally I think they are real or at least something different from LDs. If they were a regular LD but just different, wouldn't exprienced LD folk be able to get out of the AP senario and do other stuff?

While in the library, I happened to come across a paraphsycology encyclopedia and under the section dealing with AP, it gave a few tests done to prove it. One involved setting off some Highly senstive motion dectetors, another invovled using a Ap to calm a cat down miles away and stop it from purring, and one invovled the ol' come back with the info on this card miles away. All the tests Succeeded, and btw using a card to determine if AP is real doesn't work depedning on how long the card is there. I heard that the reason why some things appear weird or new things appear while AP, is due to previous Mental "residue". If a couch was in the same place for 20 years and later moved. While AP'ing, you could see the couch still there due to everyone being used to it being there. As for new items, they don't show up too clearly.

[Atheist]

[Sleepy]

[Atheist]

[Pilot]

Atheist, it is obvious to me and to you that running circles around the issue will not prove or disprove anything. If the world or whoever claims they are real it will not make a difference yet again to me or to you. Truth seekers alike, I propose you get to the point and verify it for yourself with purpose to either prove or disprove the nature of OBEs. The best way to do is involves giving it a completely fair set of trials. I believe you are talented enough to achieve this out of body state and complete clarity of mind when beyond the senses to conduct a specific test; anything that will satisfy, for yourself, a knowledge beyond the subconscious, logic, and the senses which can be verified right upon waking while keeping probability to a minimum. There are plenty of methods for inducing an OBE and the vibrational state, and you are well aware of what LDs feel like so aim not for a dream or WILD experiment but of one that feels most like an experience out of the body. If you must, read Astral Dynamics to know exactly what to achieve and how, to conduct the test in. Remember, giving it a most fair experiment will bring you closer to the truth for yourself, whatever that may be.

[Technodreamer]

Hello, I'm Technodreamer.

I followed the steps on http://www.psychics.co.uk/astraltravel/obeexperiment.html I started to feel my eys were sort of twitching. I saw some white light, even though my eyes were closed. It wasn't very purple tinted, as some OBEers sugest. I wasn't sure what to do next. I just sat there focusing on the light and imagining my body lifting away from my physical body. Do I have to wait or should I try move my arm.

I felt as though I could lift my arm out as though completely weight less. Id didn't hear noises either. I'm I paranoide or am I on the right track?

Technodreamer

[bubobubo]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but it seems to be the closest thing. My apologies if I'm in the wrong place.
I just wanted some thoughts on the following:
A few years ago I had my first dream in which I seem to either be whooshing around, or feel something whooshing around near me in the dream. This very first dream was quite a scary one. In the next, I was flying low over the Black hills of Dakota (at least that's what my dream told me they were), no body, just energy flying..
Then in more recent times, perhaps for a year or so, I would now and again dream that I had gone into my grandad's house and was whooshing, usually quite violently or very energetically, around his house though I never whooshed upstairs as far as I can remember. I know it was me doing the whooshing though I was.. how can I describe it??... just a sort of straw/ yellow light coloured mass of something.. energy, no definite form...
At first these dreams scared me a little but then I just seemed to accept them.
Oddly enough, I haven't had them since my grandad passed on and the only dream I've had in which I've entered his house again was completely different... I entered as me, and walked into the living room only to find my uncle sitting by the fireplace peacefully. though he didn't speak I knew he was at peace.
I should point out that this uncle had a very unhappy, turbulent life and had passed on the year before my grandad did.
Any thoughts anyone on the whooshing thing??

[Pilot]

my guesses bubobubo is that you're perhaps APing or that your dream flights are symbolic of your AP activities, or a way for your subconscious to symbolize the freedom of flight outside the bounds of the body.