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tapir
flying mod
Posts: 1082
Joined: 16 May 2002
Last Visit: 29 Jan 2010
Location: Germany |
 Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Nice defintion DustMote, it covers quite a lot different "styles" of doning LL.I think I´ll use it in the future 
Traumgänger
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Space Wrangler
Lucid Initiate
Posts: 52
Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Last Visit: 01 Jan 2005
Location: Upper Peninsula of MI |
| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:33 am Post subject: |
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To me, Lucid Living (I sure like that term  ), is the process of knowing that you are in a dream, RIGHT NOW and at every moment. To me, an LD is a dream within the dream. Being aware that all that you see and feel and say and do is one giant dream in waking life, would sure do well to make you aware in a "sleeping" dream.
So I say feed your imagination and so-called, "waking" consciousness with that possibility. Who knows, if enough of us do it, we might just all wake ourselves up. 
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AirRick101
New member
Posts: 9
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Last Visit: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, there are different alteratons in our sense in a dream as opposed to waking life.
Especially after having at least 1LD, one person can differentiate the dream from the waking life, and then compares those as a way for a quick reality check.
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scoo
Novice dreamer
Posts: 16
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Last Visit: 04 Jun 2004
Location: Paris |
| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Are you aware of the fact that lucid living is pretty much the same thing as "Enlightenment" ? 
Lucid dreams, dream yoga and sleep yoga are used in some tibetan traditions to progress towards enlightenment (Tenzin Wangyal : THE TIBETAN YOGAS OF DREAM AND SLEEP )
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sme_bro
Somniologist
Posts: 135
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Last Visit: 08 Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand |
| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Lucid living is alot like mindfullness meditation, used by many people. Good idea to use it for lucid dreaming, it can only help
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ypm
Somniologist
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Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Last Visit: 14 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| scoo wrote: |
Are you aware of the fact that lucid living is pretty much the same thing as "Enlightenment" ?
Lucid dreams, dream yoga and sleep yoga are used in some tibetan traditions to progress towards enlightenment (Tenzin Wangyal : THE TIBETAN YOGAS OF DREAM AND SLEEP ) |
I'm actually just reading the Tibetan Yogas of dream and sleep and I'm finding it very interesting. I also just finshed a book on ZEN and it dealt with what this thread has labled lucid living.
I've been trying it lately with not that much sucess in inducing lucid dreams (but there is no rush) but I do think that it works well during new or pressure situations.
Just a question for anyone (since a lot of the posts from this thread seem quite old) have you found lucid living a helpful wasy to induce ludic dreams?
ypm.
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markmarijnissen
Lucid Initiate
Age: 25
Posts: 84
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Last Visit: 22 Sep 2009
Location: Holland Age:18 |
| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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in this topic everybody's tell his of her definition of Lucid Living, but i'd like to see some "techniques" to Live Lucid,..
yeah the thing that comes up in my mind is zazen-meditation, or mindfullness mediation in general, but i personally find it hard to practice it, because it's difficult to see how much benifit you get from zazen.
i mean, if i saw progres, it would keep my motivation up.
Do you have any ideas to determine how aware you are? At what level your awareness is?
It would help me a lot to practice zazen again because then i can say: hey, look at that, i'm being more aware than last week!
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mystic
Dream Templar
Posts: 2918
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 16 Jan 2006
Location: Near the branch's tip |
| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ypm wrote: |
| Just a question for anyone (since a lot of the posts from this thread seem quite old) have you found lucid living a helpful wasy to induce ludic dreams? |
Yes it helped me a while ago. Although it takes more time before you notice any difference (when compared to other techs), I think LL can have a deeper impact on the long term. I used the method of Atisha (it's a very simple one: treat everything as if it were a dream) combined with attempting to live in the Now (by condensing thoughts and the perception of space-time in the moment itself). Although I only had a few glimpses of the Now, the practice itself had some beneficial effects: if you try to grasp the moment, you develop more awareness in carnal perceptions, and your worries disappear entirely. Even your thoughts diminish so you can start living fully conscious of your being at that moment (it also inspired me to make poems about it).
This exercise increased general awareness in my dreams, so I became lucid not by some dreamsign, but by the dream feeling itself.
I'm glad you asked that.. it reminds me to practice it again
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ypm
Somniologist
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Last Visit: 14 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hi mystic thanks for the response. I am currently trying to practice lucid living using the instructions from "The Tibetan Yogas of dream and sleep" and I agree with what you wrote about lucid living.
I think your explaination actually answers Isaac's question, the reason that it is difficult to practice is becuase the progress seems slow, even though in the end it is probably the most rewarding.
One peice of progress that I have noticed in my dreams is an increased "mental" presense. I don't seem to be as flighty or "fooled" by things, this has occured since I began practicing this in conjunction with meditation.
| mystic wrote: |
This exercise increased general awareness in my dreams, so I became lucid not by some dreamsign, but by the dream feeling itself. |
I've had two lucid dreams this month (not too many) and they have both been as a result of this. I also noticed that in the past when I became lucid I was usually excited and the dream woudl often fade. Since practicing lucid living I have been relaxed and more in control during my two lucid dreams.
Is this the atisha method that you use: http://www.osholeela.com/meditation/atisha.html
If you start practicing lucid living again be sure to post any progress here, I'm sure it will help isaac and I (and any other practitioners) to know what progrss "looks" like.
ypm.
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Technodreamer
In mod disguise!
Posts: 1381
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Last Visit: 08 Feb 2011
Location: UK |
| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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I am still a little unclear on what lucid living is.
I can recreate the exitment of being in an LD by really looking at my real life enviroment, and pretending it's a dream. I can look at it and say, it's not real, but picture quality is real. I feel "all powerful".
When you say "choose" to have an emotion, I don't agree. What you are actually saying is "Should I choose to react and ponder upon this emotion?" It is a judgement of each emotion, and clarifying whether you want to experience it any longer.
Because, ofcourse, you can never stop yourself from feeling emotions.
Now, onto awareness. I thought the idea of the conscious was to be aware of a singal thing. It would be very very hard to take in all the information and consciously study it, compare it to stored data, and file it as you feel fit. Our sub-conscious does this for us. I don't think that we have the mental ability to process that much information at once.
On top of this, you would have to take stored data, and reajust it to fit the new template that the current data could have created. This could involve reading, and gaining of vocabulary.
The subconscious could process this in one of two ways:
1) Reanalyse all the data it has got
2) Reanaylse data based on a list of data to eb reanalysed. So that when the data coems up it is reanalysed before beign submitted to the conscious.
This would contribute to the slow alteration of memory. It would also be extreamly hard to consciously do. You would have to do thsi data analysis, whiel still concentrating on all your senses.
However, it is possible to train yourself to focus on one sense, with information coming in from another sense.
Now which one is it that is lucid living?
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mystic
Dream Templar
Posts: 2918
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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ypm: no that's not the method I used.. I used this one:
| Quote: |
Think that all the events, manifestations, and movements of mind are illusory as in the nature of a dream, unreal and false. For example, when we are sleeping, our dream seems real to us when it is absolutely unreal: if it were real, then the dream would really be happening. In the same way, our world and the beings in it in all their diversities are but the illusive manifestations of mind. While the illusion is taking place, it is "real", but its essence is unreal like a dream. Therefore regard all phenomena as insignificant, similar to a dream, and rest your mind in this perspective in the moment.
Ask yourself, "is mind itself real, or not?" This is your own experiment to lead you to recognize mind. You have to meditate on the mind and ask yourself: What color is it? What is its form? Where does it come from? What is its purpose? Is it inside or outside of the body? What happens when it experiences heat or the cold? Reflect on the mind in this way. You may come to the conclusion that the mind defies any such determination and that is the essence of mind. You must meditate on this point. |
(from http://www.kagyu-asia.com/t_7points_atisha.html )
Technodreamer: Lucid living isn't about analyzing every perception coming from your senses (at least imo). In fact, true lucid living goes beyond the analytical mind. Instead of clinging to every perception, you have to let it all go through you. Don't get attached, don't analyze and try not to think about it, but become aware of it and just let it be. There's no need to think about it. It isn't about perceptual recognition but about letting it all go, accepting the perception as it is without trying to grasp it. Like a mirror, the things you perceive doesn't affect you in any way, but are reflected back by your mind, which remains undisturbed by their existence.
Also, realize you're not living in the future, nor in the past but that you're here Now. I say realize, not visualize or think about.. To feel your awareness is far more important than to think about it, because that would cause too much identification with the world and keeps the mind away from the Now. Realize it doesn't help you anything if you keep distracted by your thoughts, which always reside in the past or the future, but never in the Now. The mind is always escaping the Now, thereby creating lots of distractions and mental suffering. In essence, lucid living is exactly about residing back into the Now, to find back that ungraspable stillness. And you can only do that if you let go of the future and the past, because staying there only creates a gap between where you are and where you want to be.. If you can do that, you're very intensely aware of and in peace with the world as it is Now, without any distractions from the analytical mind. I think this is the very core of lucid living.. Although it may take years of meditation and practice before you reach it, the way along is also very colorful and rich of nice experiences, glimpses of what's yet to come.
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Technodreamer
In mod disguise!
Posts: 1381
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Last Visit: 08 Feb 2011
Location: UK |
| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah!! I understand now. So if you were to be an expert in this you would even be able to see two dimensionaly!
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ypm
Somniologist
Posts: 114
Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Last Visit: 14 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Technodreamer wrote: |
| Ah!! I understand now. So if you were to be an expert in this you would even be able to see two dimensionaly! |
Hey Technodreamer, what do you mean by see two dimensionally?
ypm.
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mystic
Dream Templar
Posts: 2918
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 16 Jan 2006
Location: Near the branch's tip |
| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah I too don't understand what you meant by that.. LL isn't about reducing your physical sight or anything. Instead, it should bring about more dimensions, more depth to your (inner) life.
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Technodreamer
In mod disguise!
Posts: 1381
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Last Visit: 08 Feb 2011
Location: UK |
| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Our eyes transmitted the data they recieve in two dimensions. These dimensions are Width and Height. Because of the way the eye works, it detects a projection of light on the retina. This is a 2D picture.
Dimensions typically go light this:
0D
1D=Height
2D=Height and Wdith
3D=Height, Width and Depth
4D (Yes, our world is 4 dimensional not 3 dimensional)=Height, Width, Depth and Trength
Theoreticly it goes on, but there has only been evidence to support the fourth dimension at the moment.
If you were to see the data you see from your eyes, as it is really shown, it should all be 2D. It is only a "filter" that makes it 3D.
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