The BIG WBTB Topic - Part II

[Reyth]

I happened to read the Tibetan dream yoga last night and they address the issue of not being able to get to sleep!

They say do two things:

1) Exercise until tired
2) Eat nutritious food

So I did 4 sleep transfers last night. The 4th one I could tell was going to be one of these long drawn out ones so after doing the headstand and being up for 5 mins and laying down, I got up ate some cheese and yogurt and then did a second headstand.

I started following my hypnagogic imagery. At first I was chasing a dog, then I had a knife and was following a man who had attacked me.

Then I fell asleep like a baby!

The dream I had was very vivid, extended in length and very exciting. I was driving towards a train and had to leap out of the car and swing on a cable some 30+ feet above the ground. Man it was fun!

So I think the increased vividness is good. I just need to get it to be lucidity.

Sorry if this message is too long.

Reyth

[Quimbisero]

Gee, and I thought WBTB meant "waiting by the bedpan." No wonder nothing happened. Oh well, time to change techniques...

I do think there's some advantage to wbtb, especially since I wake perodically anyway. I just find quite varied levels of grogginess when I do. However, because of my schedule, my best results have always been around 3:30-4am.

[Sonia]

I'm glad you gave those tips, Reyth! I tried doing WBTB for the first time this morning, but with no success because I'm so bad at falling back to sleep.

[spotted_zebra]

If I want to preform a WBTB and I don't want to do it paired up with MILD or WILD then what is the best amount of time I should stay up after my alarm goes off?

[StEvE21]

what are you using with WBTB with? You need to use it with something...

[Datameister]

I had enormous success with WBTB and MILD last night! (Well, enormous success for someone who's only been interested in lucid dreaming for about a week.) I did a little MILD as I went to sleep and used autosuggestion to get me to wake up after dreams. Around 3:30, I awoke and remembered some NDs. I wrote them down, read this thread and a few others for fifteen minutes or so, and went back to bed. While practicing MILD again, I suddenly remembered another dream I'd already had and got up to write it down. Back to bed, more MILD. (I envisioned myself noticing strange details in previous dreams and becoming lucid; I also spent a while focusing intently on the image of my dream journal.) This time, I fell asleep and had my first "real" LD.

It was incredible. I performed the nose-plugging LD in the dream, and it worked like...well, a dream. Even after that, I had a difficult time convincing myself that this wasn't real. It was far more vivid than any dream I'd ever had. But it was a dream--I saw my dog who died months ago, I walked through a pane of glass without breaking it, I breathed through tightly shut nostrils, and I made the sky change colors at will. Sadly, I woke up before I flew. I was so intent on changing the night into day (for better flying visibility) that I never got a chance to actually take off.

The weirdest and one of the best experiences of my life. I can't wait for another!

[TweaK]

<mod>merged into the BIG WBTB topic</mod>

I was wondering when anybody WILDs (With WBTB), how long do you stay up for WBTB? Do you just awaken yourself mentally a bit? Do you actually get out of bed? What do you do? This is not a "OMG WHAT TO DO", I just want to know what other people do.

[TimeLess]

there is a huge sticky on this topic, but i ussaly get up n get out of bed. do somthing like get on the forum. well i used 2. for like 20 min then back to bed n try it. but wild keeps me up n makes me stay awake! so nto my fav tech

[StEvE21]

If you fall asleep easily, you can get up and stay up for 30 minutes. If you have trouble falling asleep, you can just wake up and re-enter a dream right away.

[TweaK]

Why would you want to stay awake longer anyway?

[youngdreamer]

Why is it that WBTB works well for so many people? What exactly happens when you do WBTB? I'm familiar with the process but how does this work in terms of your actual dreaming? Are you sleeping lighter because you've been up for an hour and so its easier to become lucid? Or for the people who do it only for a minute and then go back to sleep how does this work? Also are REM cycles always (ignoring outside factors like alcohol or drugs) 90 minutes long? And does this begin from the minute you lie down to go to sleep or when you actually fall asleep? So if I want to set an alarm to go off 90 minutes into my REM cycle should I set it for 90 minutes after I lie down or 90 minutes + however long it will take me to actually fall alseep? Basically I'm just confused about REM/sleep cycle, how long it last and when exactly dreaming occurs and how this works with WBTB or alarms or lucid inductions that play after you are already asleep?

[Basilus West]

I don't think it's clearly explained. This empirical technique has been created from lucid dreamers observations who claimed they had more dreams in the morning and during morning naps.

I think you have to distinguish between WBTB used with WILD and WBTB with DILD/MILD. On the Lucidity Institute website, they assume that "the best time to directly enter the REM state is immediately after having awakened from it". This has to do with dream-reentry technique and WILD. Moreover it seems you can WILD out of the REM-sleep phase. Thus you don't have to wait for a long time before you fall asleep again. But when you practice WBTB+MILD, you have to wait 45 minutes. This is just statistical results.

[Tggtt]

For me it is explained that way:

WBTB is a forced way of opening your "dream enclosure". You can wake up and remember them, start thinking about it and realise when it happens again.

But the question "Why is it easier for most people?"
That's just like i said, that forced way of remembering may work even when you cannot can induce thoughts to your mind.
Maybe caused of stress, bad memory, tiredness, bad concentration...


I've mentioned it here.

[Eyegug]

my first LD ever (2 nights ago) was after my friend called me randomly to tell me about his dream and then i fell back asleep.

last night, i tried WBTB (i read the forums for 10 mins) and i ended up having a lucid moment.

i frequently do WBTB (without reading hte forums) and attempt to WILD but that has been unsuccessful for me.

Would WILDing after reading the forums still induce a lucid dream like normal WBTB even if i dont succeed in WILD? or should i just do strict WBTB without WILD?

[Zaedros]

Sorry if this smallish piece of information can already be found somewhere in this maze, but as a somewhat lazy person I figured I could just go ahead and ask it directly.

I "found" lucid dreaming a few weeks ago, and had a lucid moment on the following night. Of course, seeing as I had read so little about LD techniques, I had no idea how to maintain the low lucidity I had. Even if it was short, it sure as hell was impressive. After that night I have had a few more lucid "moments", but nothing I could call a whole dream or high lucidity. I still have to find my own way of having them, and WBTB caught my eye.

I am one of those people who fall asleep slowly, but who have high motivation. So my question is that if I am about to try out the WBTB method should I start some WILD techniques instantly after waking up and hope for the best or should I stay up for a time and then get back to bed? Naturally the instant WILDing is more suitable for me, but if staying up for a while means a lot more efficiency, I may have to sacrifice the comfortability and suitability for it.

Maybe those who have more trouble falling asleep could harness that attribute in the instant WILDing method? Could they stay awake longer and have better chances to stay awake through the whole ordeal?

Thanks in advance.