Lucid Living Topic - part II

I’m confused :cry:

:tongue:

Lol. Sorry about my incompetence to explain it in a better way… :smile:

Read Eckhart Tolle - Practicing the Power of Now. He probably explains it more properly :smile:

But really, even if one finds the right words to describe it in the most accurate way, you have to experience it to know exactly what is meant. How to experience it? To shift your awareness to your inner self, observe the flow of your thoughts and to look upon the world as an observer instead of a participant. This way you automatically focuse on the Now, you don’t think anymore about the past nor the future, and every perception is seen as a timeless manifestation of the moment. The road is long before you can live your life fully in the Now, but even if you’ve just started practicing, you’ll notice various subtle changes. These include a sense of profound calmness and peace, a formless broadening of your conscious perception (though this experience can quickly destabilize you because if you don’t keep it central, a sudden rush of adrenalin can overwhelm you), a glimpse of timelessness (I often get this when I try to grasp the sound of rustling leaves, or raindrops falling on the roof),…

The only way to understand it is to experience it.

One of the things that got me interesting in lucid living (besides reading a book on Zen) was this Stephen Lebarge book (the new Lucid Dreaming book with the CD) where he talks about awareness.

He talks about increasing your awarenss throughout the day. He says something like “it’s not hear, smell, taste. It’s I hear, I smell, I taste.”

That’s sort of how I think aobut it, so much of what we do throughout the day is just areaction, we don’t even think about it and we do it. Lucid living is being aware of yourself throughout the day and what you are doing (simplified).

I hope that helps.

ypm.

ypm.

Hey guys, check out my thread about the stairway supplementary technique, its a version of lucid living that I’m testing out at the moment. :wink:

i think this “lucid living” is good, i did not have good control over dreams until i had somewhat good control over my everyday life, lucid dreraming requires control and no laziness, for example, you may want to go back to sleep instead of writing in your dj but you need to write, you should also cut out stupid indulgences in your daily life that make you weaker, for example, if you are fatty: lose weiught, if you are very shy (like i was): learn to get over it. als no procrastination and worrying about stupid stuff. the more you have discipline in real life: probably equals more control in dreams, but lds also can be inspiring, if you fly in a dream, you feel like you can push your limits in real life as well, they also teach you not to worry as much and take chances (like you would in a dream)

Great topic going on here.

I was thinking about lucid living last night (or Waking Life, as in the movie). I know that dreamtime consciousness often reflects waking consciousness. It’s a scary premise: Over the course of a day we have 10,000 thoughtless thoughts, often unrelated to one another. We’ll spend most of our time in hurried transition even as were doing something already (like grabbing a handfull of popcorn while not even finshed chewing the previous one and watching mindless television). It’s no wonder we have trouble staying lucid in dreams, we become slaves to the reality of the envirement, zombies if you will, just as in waking life. Is this the mental focus we should entrust our dreaming selves with?

Try and recall everything that happened in 14 hours of wakefullness yesterday and you’ll probably come up with whatever you recall from a typical dream in the morning. So much goes unprocessed, billions of details, nuances, sentances. events. I can vaguely remember what people were wearing, where they were standing, what they were saying. I am a waking zombie. No more lucid in life than as in most dreams.

It’s amazing how such a simple moment of looking at the world as if you were infact dreaming can slow everything down, and you can just breath. A little bit of wonder is introduced, colors glow, and what you hear is crisp, you can feel your pulse and your breath and the humorous realization of existing.

Waking life IS a dream too. The problem is it is a shared dream with too many people, too many rules, most of which are uneccessary. Plus the whole being mortal thing. However, it is tantamount to dreams as being a reality we experience soley in the subjective world of ourselves. Why not treat it as such? If for nothing else, the betterment of night dreams.

In my dreams I would find myself marvelling how real everything looked. While in the dream I find it amazing that my subconcious could create such a flawless reinactment of ‘the real world’ so when im awake sometimes i try to put myself in the same position. i imagine that everything around me could all be my own creation and how i wouldnt even know. Its a strange feeling, like knowing that in the spaces where i cant see anything there may just be nothing there at all unless i think it into existance.
This is my first post on this site in a year or so i think. Gona gte fully back into it for awhile again(lucid dreaming of course).

I may sound stupid but i’m just trying to clarify from what i’ve been reading on this, Lucid Living is trying to recreate whatever feeling you get when you’re in an LD in your waking. This could explain why certain people are just masters at lucid dreaming and never think anything of it, they have the feeling they get while in a LD all the time so its nothing too far out of the ordinary at least feelings wise for them.

If this is what LL is then it seems simpler them some of the other technqiues the only trick is learning how you feel in an LD and to do that you’d need to have a few.

Seriously one of the best texts written about awareness/ lucid living. It`s 8 pages long, but worth every second of your time :razz:

Uh, what text? [edit: doh :razz:]

I think he means this whole LL topic. Together with the previous parts, it’s 8 pages long :smile:

ONLY READ THE FIRST POST:
very poetic message!
in the other discustion about jesus christ, i just didn’t say this because i haven’t thought about it so deeply! -but i must say it crossed my mind.- i think that that’s basicly what he’s done! instead of just controlling his dreams, he started controlling his life - in a positive way that is!
who knows it all started with a LD?
peace~@~you and me too

This topic is indeed great…although i think discussing about this should come in second (or maybe even third…fourth :tongue:) place after actually DOING it.

For the last month i have been doing the talking (or the thinking) more than the doing… :smile:

In some previous posts i encountered the idea that this is just like a muscle, and that you can develop it. And that’s why i ask any of you who has practiced LL (in any form) to post how far they have gone. I have been trying to stay in the NOW but it only lasts a few seconds and then i get swept away…I’m asking you: Is it getting any better than this?

For those advanced LL practitioners: please post how much can you stay in the LL state, or how much can you sustain the LL feeling and how much time has it took for you to reach this level.

Maybe i am wrong to think in “how much can you stay in this state” terms … please correct me if i am.

While I’ve done some LLing previously, I’ve only just started serious practice (about three weeks ago). When compared to the beginning I can say there has changed (and is changing) something very subtle. Hard to explain… Instead of doing things unconsciously like a machine, I’m trying to become aware of that process, to see it from outside. It will probably take quite some time to really achieve that, but I’ve already noticed a very subtle shift of perspective from the “I” to the “me” perspective. If I don’t pay attention to it, I wouldn’t notice it so there’s still much much work to do :smile: As for those few moments in the Now… I’m sure it gets better than that, as long as you try to keep your awareness in the Moment. As Tolle says, remaining aware of your presence catalyzes an evermore deepening of your consciousness. Don’t worry about it. And if you do worry, try to witness yourself worrying, without judging whether it’s a good thing or not.

Good luck :wink:

I do not understand this fully. Are you talking about witnessing yourself?

Serious practice! Wow…cool!! I wish i could do that! :smile: Besides the ideas in Tolle’s book and meditation do you have some other practices you do? If it’s not too personal, could you share some of them?

Thanks!

Yes, but it’s still very very subtle… And it’s not like an OBE where you can also witness yourself. Instead, it’s more like a change of perspective coming from within you. For instance, I always try to practice LL as intensely as possible whenever I’m brushing my teeth. Instead of feeling the sensations created by the toothbrush against my teeth, I try not to identify myself with them, meaning I try not to experience it as in “I am feeling those sensations”. Instead, I try to see it from the perspective of a witness seeing myself feeling those sensations. What’s the essence of such a sensation? On the surface, one notices only the physiological effects of the action. But what about the action itself? Where lies the boundary between the action and the resulting sensations? Can we actually experience what’s it like to stand on that boundary, where there is no difference anymore between the action and its resulting sensations? What does it say about me, my Self? The same with the visual reflection I see in the mirror, the noises I hear and the flavour I taste on my tongue. Paying attention to all of these makes the action go very slowly ofcourse… But it’s a way to detach yourself from your identification with the world. Usually our identification of the world as seen through the carnal senses is also our identification with reality. But LL tries to cut through that illusionary veil that the reality as perceived through the physical senses is really what Reality is about. Compare consciousness with an endlessly deep ocean. The reality as seen through the five senses consists of only the first few turbulent inches of the ocean. Because of the turbulence, ego tends to identify itself only with those few upper inches of the ocean. That becomes its false reality. That becomes its I- experience. LLing concentrates on the Now, which is the only true portal through which one can dive deeper into the ocean, towards more quiet waters. There are many many ways towards the portal of the Now, but there’s only one true portal and that is the Now. From that deeper perspective one can then look towards the turbulent surface waters, seeing that false reality as it is, without judgement because it’s just there, there’s nothing anymore to judge about. From that deeper perspective you can look at it without getting attached to it anymore; the identification falls off and you witness everything just as it is. Nothing more. But it frees you from the ego-bound reality of physical senses, home to a turbulent mind filled with fears, complexes, unfulfilled wishes and an evergoing rambling train of meaningless thoughts. LL teaches you to go deeper, through that surface veil and to become the witness of your own surface mind.

You don’t have to go to special places, you don’t need special training courses, you don’t need special equipment. You can practice at any time, no matter what you’re doing. Just pay close attention to whatever you’re perceiving. You say you wish you could do that… You might for instance concentrate on that wish feeling. Look at it, observe it, but don’t identify yourself with it. Ask yourself, what does it mean to feel it? Where does it come from? Go to the heart of the feeling, again just by observing it. No judgment, no attachment. Does that feeling really represent me? LL thus becomes a thorough self-exploration towards deeper and deeper levels of the Now, evermore taking you away from the troubled surface mind of mechanic identification with an utterly monochrome and flat reality we learned to accept without questioning because it has become such a monstruous habit to most of us to live in it. LL is a wonderful way to bridge the gap between that what appears to be and that what is.

All I can say is: be aware of what you’re doing, seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, thinking. In the beginning it’s hard to pay attention to all of them at once, because it remarkably slows down the pace of your actions at that moment. Never try to judge whatever you’re perceiving, because that would only keep you in the troubled surface mind. Just let it be. If you feel tensions in your body or feel the need to scratch yourself, first bring your awareness to the core of those tensions or nerve tics, and keep asking the same questions: what lies at the core of this feeling? Does it really represent a part of me? Observe it without attachment, and leave it that way.
Another thing I’ve noticed:

The next day I tried this:

Something else I always do:

I hope this helps a bit :smile:

Good luck! :happy:

Very good post Mystic. Additionally to asking yourself quesitons about your actions, your senses etc, what you could try to do during LL is to develop a kind of awareness in the “back of your head” that keeps you stuck in realizing that you live now. In this sence it doesnt need to be on the top of your consciousness the whole time, although from time to time you might think and wonder about it. It is more like a feeling realy.

Mystic, thank you for sharing that!!

I’ll put your ideas into practice…and maybe i’ll come to a deeper understanding to what this is all about.

Btw, do you keep a LL journal?

Once again, a thousand thanks!!

:smile:

I wrote my thoughts down for a while when I first started practicing. I had the intention of posting a LL journal, but once you’re in your regular practice, there’s nothing much to tell because the process is going so slow.

Remember though… although the implications are far more deeper than LDing, it takes a lot more practice for a much longer time in order to change radically. So it’s extremely important to keep practicing, day by day, and to have a lot of patience!

I wish you the best of luck!! :happy:

Nicely done Mystic, and I like the ocean analogy.

In talking about LL there is usually a great deal of attention and explanation put on what it is not. This could be summed up nicely as swimming in the shallow turbulent waters of our personal “insanity”. Worries, fears, anger, going thru the motions without any awareness, etc. Most often the issue becomes: “How do I stop? What exercises can I do? etc”. There is definitely a need to find some way to bread the pattern, but don’t let the exercise become the focus of LL. If you engage in self-examination, looking to see if some thought is really you or not, don’t make a career out of it. If you are disappointed in the weather, don’t spin yourself into some great introspective conundrum. That’s still swimming in the shallow waters.

When I notice that I am not in the moment, I simply go “Woops” and return my attention to the here and now. I believe that the most benefit will be gained by staying in the moment. But this is personal opinion, and what’s most important is to find something you are comfortable with and keeping at it. LL is just one way of expressing the concept of being in the moment. Meditation, long walks in the woods, etc. are other means of arriving at the same thing. The difference I see with LL is the focus it places on what if feels like to be in a Lucid Dream, and trying to maintain that state of awareness in waking life.

I came up with LL because I was trying to explain what Lucid Dreaming was like, and I thought a lot about what the actual feelings/mechanisms were at play in my awareness in an LD. One key element that I always come back to is the sense of self in this type of awareness. Though I have 95% of my attention on my surroundings there is always this subtle awareness that it is ME that is doing the looking. It’s like Xetrov said: something that is always there in the back of your mind. This is simply an awareness of self. I’m not aware of being hungry, or tired, because the essential ME doesn’t feel these things, any more than the essential ME feels angry or afraid.

For me this sense of self is fundamental to this state of awareness. If I become too engrossed in what I am looking at I loose being in the here and now just the same as if I had become afraid. I’d say this was an element of self-control, a self-discipline that has to be maintained.

The practice of LL is something that can and should be done through out the day. I can loose the LL feeling in a second and have to bring myself back many many times. I’d say don’t look for a special time or place to practice this. After all it is Lucid Living, do it any time you are alive.