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Questions of Christianity

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dreamer_chick
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Questions of Christianity
PostPosted: Tue 18 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

really, how does that make sense....Jesus was a jew. Yet, Jews don't believe in Jesus. How can Jesus be a memeber of a faith that doesn't believe in him?
But yeah, i suppose beliefs are a personal thing, and if it differs from the church, I suppose that is all right.


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Shaper
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Re: Questions of Christianity
PostPosted: Tue 18 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

dreamer_chic wrote:
really, how does that make sense....Jesus was a jew. Yet, Jews don't believe in Jesus. How can Jesus be a memeber of a faith that doesn't believe in him?
But yeah, i suppose beliefs are a personal thing, and if it differs from the church, I suppose that is all right.


Jesus wasn't out to start a new religion, he was trying to effect a change in the way the Jewish temple priests were running the show. He was a jew who saw corruption is Judaism and tried to change it...but the whole son of God thing kind of ticked the temple priests, so they had Pontius Pilate (sp??), the Roman prefect, crucify him.


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dreamusic
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

I believe Jesus is God in a mystical sense, where if you give up your own will for God's, then there is no seperation between you and God. I believe this is what Jesus taught, that each one of us can do this, each one of us can sacrifice our personal selves for God's Self (our true Self). This belongs to everyone and not to any one religion or church. Christ (divinity in man) lives in each one of us and we can choose to 'resurrect' this power, thus becoming a 'Christian'. It was only later that this concept Jesus was teaching was confused with the actually man. Jesus was not trying to start Christianity as it is today, and to be honest the religion in its exoteric form today vaguely resembles the actually teaching of Jesus.



Last edited by dreamusic on Wed 19 Oct, 2005; edited 1 time in total
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Alatar
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

"The wages of SIN are DEATH"

What is this world? It could most certainly be described as death. What is sin? Isn't sin believing you are seperate from God? All sin follows after that does it not? I dare to argue that this world is the death that is explained by Jesus and by sin you remain here. When you are ready to return to God he will welcome you because all he knows is Love and you are his child. Jesus is who we must "go through" to get back to God, through his words we slowly realise what we truly are, brothers and sisters. Nothing seperates us other then how we choose to seperate ourselves. We are the only thing holding ourselves back, why place blame anywhere else?


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Shaper
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

That is an awfully bleak world view. I feel very much alive and I think living on this planet is really more of a gift than a sin.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

Josh Redstone wrote:
That is an awfully bleak world view. I feel very much alive and I think living on this planet is really more of a gift than a sin.


We are all alive, what we are IS Life, or more accurately Love.

We have made the world a bleak place, it is our dream and we control it fully. You are free to interpret life any way you wish, that is your gift as the child of God, this is simply the way I have come to know it.

Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am guarding it until it blazes."


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Shaper
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

Alatar wrote:

We have made the world a bleak place, it is our dream and we control it fully.


Well, whatever floats your boat. I don't think we have made the world bleak at all. The world is a mixture of everything, good and/or evil, and we are a small peice of the puzzle, that's how I see it anyways.


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Freecube
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Re: Questions of Christianity
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

Sureal wrote:
Freecube wrote:
dreamer_chic wrote:
Abraham was going to sacrifice his son for God. Christians believe that the son was Issac, and .....errr...I can't remember the name of the other one...


The Old Testament in the Bible teaches that he was going to sacrifice his son, and was ready and willing until God sent a goat to sacrifice, so God tested Abraham's faith and proved that he was willing to follow God even at the cost of his son's life. Same story.


God's all knowing. He didn't need to test Abrahem's faith, because he already knew what Abrahem would do.


I always find the difference between God and Jesus to be rather interessting. In the OT, God is this tyranical, mass murdering, unfair git.

Jesus, on the other hand, is a dude with long hair who tells everyone about equality, peace and love.
In the NT, however, God (lets call him 'God II') is a lot more like his son.

This can (once again, ironically) be traced to the modern day politcal system.
God I is a Conservative.
God II and Jesus seem more like Liberals.


Hm, not really any point to this post. Just open musings wink5.


Read the bible in hebrew, or get someone who knows hebrew to read it for you. English cant convey hebrew well, making him always sound wrathful when in reality he has compassion beyond what we can comprehend.

He also did not change when the new testament was written, the peace, love, and equality also happened in the old testament, everyone was aloud to embrace Jewish faith.

The "equality" you speak of is far different from today's equality, Jesus specifically said NO homosexuality, murder, sin, etc. Everyone can come to him but then must follow God's laws.

And the purpose of testing abraham wasnt for God, it was for abraham. It changed him as a man and aloud him to see how much he liked God.


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OppNed
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005  Reply with quote

Shouldn't He have thought about the language-barriere before he told his disciples to spread the word? He knew people in france didn't speak hebrew, and He probably should know that it wouldn't take a lot of a word-difference for it to be confusions, so why then, in spite of this, does the whole religion of christianity rely on the written word? The "truth" in the bible obviously is a matter of interpretation on more than one level, which also inflates the term "belief" as we have to believe not only the essense of the whole thing, which is that there is a god, but also, just to even get to that point where we make up our minds, we have to believe or not believe in a vast ocean of interpretations, both on the philosophy of it as well as the pure language-side of it.

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VisionDreamz
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005  Reply with quote

I know there are seas of interpretation about pretty much all human experiences. Perhaps in order to see things for what they really are we need a single grounding idea to believe in, leaving all other experiences and interpretations as food for thought. I think it's important that we as the people living in this place stop arguing and just agree on something that works with everyone. Anyone have any ideas on what that all encompassing idea could be? Something that every person of every philosophy and walk of life may agree upon? A single idea that unites all in harmony?


The absolute truth is the absolute reality.


This is one way an argument of the future could go if everyone believed in the absolute reality:

Person 1: Hey what do you think about (such and such) in the old testament?

Person 2: Oh I think it means this...

Person 1: No it doesn't it means this...

Person 2: Oh well, I think your interpretation is pretty interesting. I suppose it can't really be proven or disproven, and it doesn't really matter. The important thing is that we both know that the old testament came about by the means of the absolute reality.

Person 1: Yeah... I like reality, lets go take care of ourselves and our planet now.

*happy music starts playing* grin


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radical_mutations
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005  Reply with quote

Hi. I really dont know where to begin. There's just so many....

Ahem. Okay. First off, i would like to say that i dont mean to offend anyone. If you feel offended, it means that you dont really understand my argument because either my english is bad or your english is bad.

Okay.

First off, i think your not supposed to really get the concept of the Trinity. I mean, why should you? i wouldnt worship a God that could be explained in totality by logic and science. Wha's the point in that? Might as well spend your sundays learning biochemistry to extend your life span. Second, God was not difference in the OT and NT. He was the same. Only in the NT, Jesus died for us, a sacrifice for our sins.So, we dont need to get blamed for what we did wrong. This is unique. No one else could or can do that. You cant die for someone else's sins unless you are blameless to begin with. There a verse on this somewhere.

Also, the Bible does say that you need to go to church. No offence. You need to go to church to help distinguish from your own voice and the voice of God. We live in a world of hate and vice. Its difficult to tell when your right, or your just being made to believe your right.

Also, you need to believe in Jesus to go to heaven. Its not a matter of whether its fair or not. You need to believe in a brigde to cross a river. If you dont believe in it, you wont want to cross it. Im not saying that other religions are wrong. Its just that a lot of other religions are a lot harder to get right. No matter where you are, or what you believe in, the capacity for sinning, doing wrong is still there. In most religions the only way to absolve yourself is usually very painful or difficult and only the most devoted of individuals can manage it. Christianity is a easier. Its a religion based on mercy and forgiveness. No matter what you've done, you can be saved. The only reason that it seems otherwise is because people are evil. They cant stand the fact that it is easy so they add whatever they feel like, just to make it harder (e.g. Crusades).

Also, the Bible is never, ever wrong. In whatever language.There's a verse there that warns against anyone who would want to alter it. The only reason you dont understand it is because you yourself are wrong in some way.

Finally, to the guy who said that "Well personaly i think cristiantiy is so *** stupid..." Let me tell you something. In many places in the world, all people really have is a religion to keep them going. Maybe in America, its not like that. Where i come from, people dont insult religion. Any religion, despite what we personally feel about it. Its a good philosophy.


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Dreaming Parent
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005  Reply with quote

radical_mutations wrote:
Also, you need to believe in Jesus to go to heaven. Its not a matter of whether its fair or not. You need to believe in a brigde to cross a river. If you dont believe in it, you wont want to cross it. Im not saying that other religions are wrong. Its just that a lot of other religions are a lot harder to get right. No matter where you are, or what you believe in, the capacity for sinning, doing wrong is still there. In most religions the only way to absolve yourself is usually very painful or difficult and only the most devoted of individuals can manage it. Christianity is a easier.
So you're saying that there are other ways into heaven but that via Jesus it is easiest? Is that biblical?


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radical_mutations
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005  Reply with quote

No, im just being politically correct. I as i said, i live in a country where religious intolerance is really really not... considered nice.
Which is great. I love the gov! I love the gov!


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Bruno
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005  Reply with quote

Dreaming Parent wrote:
So you're saying that there are other ways into heaven but that via Jesus it is easiest? Is that biblical?


Actually, I agree with that to some extent. I'm still an agnostic–atheist but I was raised by two christian families with very different approaches to christianism, and one thing I noticed about christianism is that it has a huge range of possibilities to all people—if you need a more humanist, practical religion, you can be a christian, if you need more symbolism and ritual to feel spiritually fulfilled, christianism provides that too. Christianism accepts people with all kinds of spiritual needs and provides them with what they need—lectures, social assistence, exorcism, only the set of moral beliefs; you name it, you have it. Some may call this a marketing strategy.

Now, if we consider that one's stairway to heaven consists in spiritual fulfilment, I think Christianism is one of the easiest religions, because it is dynamical to the point of being a different religion to each person. I'm not saying it is the right religion for everyone (hence I'm not christian), but being so acceptive really helps.


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sage
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005  Reply with quote

radical_mutations wrote:

First off, i think your not supposed to really get the concept of the Trinity. I mean, why should you? i wouldnt worship a God that could be explained in totality by logic and science.

The weird thing about this concept of the Trinity, is that it has no Biblical basis. Search the Bible all you want, but you’ll never find the word ‘trinity.’ It is dogma created a few hundred years after Christ. Jesus wouldn’t have known what the trinity was, I don’t think he expects us to. Furthermore, I think the whole concept of the trinity leads us away from the true message Jesus was trying to bring. Yes, I and the Father are one, but so are all of you. Yes, I am a son of God, but so are you. “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.” (Ps. 82)

radical_mutations wrote:

Its just that a lot of other religions are a lot harder to get right. No matter where you are, or what you believe in, the capacity for sinning, doing wrong is still there. In most religions the only way to absolve yourself is usually very painful or difficult and only the most devoted of individuals can manage it. Christianity is a easier.

Christians still have the capacity for sin and doing wrong, just follow 99% of them around on Saturday night. Christianity, like all mainstream religions, is composed of a huge majority of people who are there because that’s what you do on Sunday or that’s what you were brought up to do or that’s what makes you feel good and spiritual. Then there is the tiny, tiny minority of people who are there because it is the Path they have chosen. Their souls are truly hungering for union with God. These few will tell you that it is NOT an easy path, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or Mysticism. Nothing about it is easy. Look at the lives of Jesus and the apostles, look at the lives of all true saints, there is nothing easy about truly walking a spiritual path. Anyone who tells you Christianity is an easy religion hasn’t had to crucify their personal demons or gaze into the abyss of their own hearts.

But don’t confuse the stuff that goes on in mainstream society, the stuff on TV on Sunday mornings, the fire and brimstone, say a 10 second prayer and receive eternal salvation, $29.99 per month, Jesus loves me this I know, don’t confuse that with true Christianity.

radical_mutations wrote:

Also, the Bible is never, ever wrong. In whatever language.There's a verse there that warns against anyone who would want to alter it. The only reason you dont understand it is because you yourself are wrong in some way.


You’re talking about this I believe… “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.” (Rev. 22:18 ).

A lot of people quote this, but what they often don’t realize is that the verse applies to the book of prophecy Paul was recording. It goes with Revelations. It doesn’t go with the Bible. The Bible in its present form didn’t even exist when Paul wrote this document. The Bible was compiled by men, by a council of the Catholic church that decided which books it was good to include, and which books to exclude. Man is fallible, and so are his creations.


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