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DayLight
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

I said I would post the Bible passage that endorses slavery, so here it is.

Moses wrote:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


So god tells you to have slaves. hand voor hoofd


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zero_saiyaman
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

lol, doesn't say to do it if I read correctly, but that it's permissible under that old herbrew law (with many provisions about treating slaves justly later on I think). Slavery still occurs today commonly in Africa (tribes take slaves of other tribes), so it's kinda a long standing issue in humanity as sad as it is... Huh, interesting, I never thought about slavery much before, but it's one of the few human things you never see done elsewhere in nature...

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Bruno
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

DayLight wrote:
So god tells you to have slaves. hand voor hoofd

God tells us or Moses told us?

And, anyways, what's the matter? Lets assume God's let you have slaves—after all, there's all the free will thing, you should be free to enslave your brothers—does that make slavery any more human? God has let humans have slaves, but humans themselves have decided not to. That shows maturity.

After all, as Moogle said, "it's hard not to do things when you can". wink5

But I still think there's a huge difference between something Moses wrote and something God said.


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Aikho
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

huge diff, as, have you play'd the whispering game, a feather can turn into ten birds, it would be much the same if you think about it...

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DayLight
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

Bruno wrote:
But I still think there's a huge difference between something Moses wrote and something God said.


According to the Christian faith, The books of the Bible are the words of God, as he writes through humans.


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Bruno
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

When I was a christian, I didn't believe that, I believed a lot of what's in the Bible was secular or metaphorical.

And there's also what Kenai said, the translations and adaptations made the Bible what it is today. Maybe the original writings of Moses didn't mention slavery, but a king ordered that that passage was added to the books, so that he would have religious justification for actions...


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PostPosted: Fri 31 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

I will both help Bruno but also argue with him.All of what is inside the Bible was written at that time FOR that time.So when it writes about slaves at that time noone believed that the things were going to be like that.It's like having a law saying "Tell your children when they grow to tell to their children never to run over a person with their car".-I'm speaking for that time-

But then Bruno,let me ask you a question.If you believe in christian god ,where did you learn worship him.From the books someone else wrote for his one time,you can't just believe everything inside that bood,even if you think what it is said inside it is metaphoricall.

I ain't inside some kind of a religious team and i'm sorry if i insulted you Bruno.But that was the best way i could tell it.If i insulted you tell it to me


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Bruno
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PostPosted: Fri 31 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

But you didn't smile

I agree with you, God has many faces, some of them I'm quite sure are just made up, and for every moment, there's a fitting face of God, chosen to represent God as a whole.

I might say I learned to worship God after beauty. I had the fantastic oportunity of growing up on a farm. And I could see the sunset or feel the smell of the grass after the rain and hear my mom thanking God for such a beautiful day.

I never really feared him for the same reason. For me, God has always meant beauty. I knew I had stepped the line when I made something against the bigger beauty. Those were the only sins I could think of.

I had to move to city, and ended up losing that innicence. And suddently God stoped to make sense for me. But I would only realize that in my first communion.

Maybe I should make a post in Moogle's Spiritual Thread...


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Petter
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PostPosted: Sat 01 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

man , were talking a lot off time since that part of the bible was written.

When the jews were told to take away the skin-thingy on the penis they were told to the same on their slaves

Its not long ago (when looking in history) since slavery went down.


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XLonewolfX
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PostPosted: Fri 21 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

But about the hell, did you know that hell is not a literal place of torture and eternal fire? That is merely symbolic.
Here's some scriptures:

Does the Bible indicate whether the dead experience pain?

Ecclesiates 9:5,10 says: For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all... All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She´ol, the place to which you are going.

Psalms 146:4: His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish.

Ezek: 18:4: The soul that is sinning—it itself will die. (So the soul does not live on in hell)

You do know that sheol is hebrew for hell(and hades is greek) well did you know that in some catholic bible under sheol in footnotes it said: grave(even though catholics believe in hellfire too!) So hell is an unconscious state: mankind's common grave.

After one dies, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?
Romans 6:7: "He who has died has been aquitted from his sin."

Jeremiah 7:31: "And they have built the high places of To´pheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hin´nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." (If it never came into God's heart, surely he does not have and use such a thing on a larger scale.)


Look according to this upright people go to hell. Job 14:13: O that in She´ol you would conceal me,That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me! (Sheol is hell in Hebrew; God himself said that Job was "a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside what is bad."-Job 1:siiw.
Also Acts 2:25-27 says this talking about Jesus in hell., ‘I had God constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken. On this account my heart became cheerful and my tongue rejoiced greatly. Moreover, even my flesh will reside in hope; because you will not leave my soul in Ha´des(hell), neither will you allow your loyal one to see corruption. (The fact that God did not "leave" Jesus in hell implifies that Jesus was in hell, or Hades fir a time.)

Does anyone get out of the Bible hell?
Rev, 20:13,14: And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha´des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and Ha´des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." (So the dead will be delivered from hell. Notice that people usually refer to the "lake of fire" as hell right? So then how can hell be thrown into hell? Because hell merely means death and the grave and the "lake of fire" symbolizes total destruction, causing to cease to exist.

These are truths from the bible. Did you know that the trinity is also a false doctrine? I can prove it in the bible too but I'll do it alter, I gotta go.




Last edited by XLonewolfX on Wed 09 Aug, 2006; edited 1 time in total
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DayLight
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

Lonewolf, what do you think about beautifuldreams' article? I've read it before on a different website, and have always wanted to hear a Christian's view on it.

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XLonewolfX
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

DayLight wrote:
Lonewolf, what do you think about beautifuldreams' article? I've read it before on a different website, and have always wanted to hear a Christian's view on it.


No I have not read it. I will surely do so and give you my opinion. (I can't do it right now because when I'm on the computer for a long period of time I start to feel nautious and I've been on quite a while)


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dreamer_chick
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Questions of Christianity
PostPosted: Wed 28 Jun, 2006  Reply with quote

Hello all, I've been reading over this thread and have been reading the bible again...which has filled my mind questions....again. neutral

I don't know..the bible is quite confusing it seems; and a lot of it I cannot make sense of. Also, there are a lot of contradictory bible verses, which confuses me.
whatsthat

LIke, one thing that I thought was unfair was the Garden of Eden story with Adam and Eve. Because Eve was the first one to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree, God would increase child-bearing pains, and have her husband 'rule over her'. now...first off, this does not make sense to me that other generations were punished for her mistake. I know that we are human, and we all sin, but does that really make sense? You wouldn't punish a boy because his grandfather had done something wrong, would you? The logic just seems to be missing...unless God realized that humans were all capable of sin and would have sinned eventually?

Also, in the bible it mentions that Jesus was a descandent of Abraham (I forget the passage though). How could this be possible? This would have to mean that Jesus was created by humans...right? whatsthat I mean, Mary could be related to Abraham somehow, but she did not create Jesus with another man. The bible says that God chose Mary to give birth to his son, Jesus. So how could he be a descendant of Abraham?

unless.....Unless they intended it to be in a symbolic way. Abraham was the father of many and looked up to. So generations later, Jesus would do the same, and people would Admire him just as they did Abraham.

I'm just really confused right now about this relgion.....your opinions?


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Netopalis
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Jun, 2006  Reply with quote

1) Both man and woman suffered from original sin, admittedly in different ways. As far as it being rather harsh, let's say that God said that you have a child, and you give that child absolutely anything it wants or needs. You tell it that it can do whatever it wants at all, except for eating this one fruit. It eats that fruit. What would your reaction be? Besides that, after that time, Adam and Eve had the ability to discern good from evil - they did not have that before the sin. Their descendants also have that knowledge, so we continue to pay the price of the knowledge.

2) Mary was a descendant of Abraham(The lineage is given in Matthew 1, I believe). She did not, however, have the child with Joseph, but God impregnated her without using a man. Yes, it seems impossible, but if you consider that He created everything in the entire universe, it becomes a small feat. So the question arises, why would it be so important for Mary to have Jesus as a virgin? The answer goes back to original sin. Deuteronomy tells us that original sin is passed down through the father. Therefore, as Jesus had no earthly father, he was not to blame for original sin, and could be a blameless sacrifice.

Hope that helps!

Andrew


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don20853
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Jun, 2006  Reply with quote

Yes the Bible can be very confusing, and there are a lot of contridictions. You should not feel to bad though, people who have spent all of there life studing the bible can not answer all the questions so that everyone is happy. That is one reason that there are so many different Christion chirches.
Some things that might help,
1. The OT combines the traditional history of both the north and south (?) kingdoms of Isrial. they both cover the same time but tell stories differently. An example: how many of each anamal went on the ark? You can find both two, and six( I belive ).
2. In the OT some of the books were written long after the time when the stories happend. An example, books were written durring the babalonian (sp?) captivity that tell the stories of earlyer times in a way to help the people in captivity be strong in their faith.
3. In the NT there are a lot of books and letters that were written much latter then belived. In some of them it is posable to figure that out because they use words diffrently then they were used at the time they were supposed to be written, or they mention places that did not exist at the time that they were supposed to be written.

This is all only helpfull if you are willing to keep an open mind when looking at the Bible. Many people (churches) do not want to keep an open mind, thy just want a list of rules, or words that they can follow. If you start reading about the history of Christianity, you can see that lots of people have asked lots of questions over time. Some of the answers that some people have come up with have become part of what is taught, or even equal to the bible for some groups. Others have been rejected.
It is a topic that lots of people have spent their lives studing. The question for each person is how much time do you want to spend, and how important is it to you?


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