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Posts: 406
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Last Visit: 17 Jan 2009
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Sat 15 Jul, 2006 |
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Damn! 
Everytime I WILD my whole body gets numb (I see that as a good thing) and I'm very relaxed, but after a time the area around my face and chest keeps me awake. That sounds crazy but, it's like that area feels like totally awake, everything is relaxed, but not there. I think it has something to do with the hotness, because I can feel every breath and it's even worse when it's hotter. I just can't relax that part and it keeps me awake for hours.
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Posts: 15
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Last Visit: 18 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sat 15 Jul, 2006 |
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Okay, I think I made some progress with my WILDs. When I do it in the afternoon or early evenings (as a nap), I now get intense abstract HI after a mere minute. These stay for while then, sometimes quite long, but then simply fade away and I'm where I started!?
What could I be doing wrong?
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24 |
Posts: 181
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Last Visit: 19 Jan 2011
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Sun 16 Jul, 2006 |
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think I'm getting really good at keeping my body completely still, to the point that it's the most comfortable way to sleep. Do any of you feel the same?
When the body is falling asleep, do you ever get the feeling like your hands are moving? Last night I felt like my fingers were moving and my hands were falling off my chest.. or whever I had my hands at the time, and this sensation caused me to want to move my hands back into position, but I knew my hands weren't moving so I didn't fall into the trap of waking my body up.
Anyone else experience this?
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Posts: 15
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Last Visit: 18 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun 16 Jul, 2006 |
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I feel a lot of "movement", not only my hands. Especially when I try to induce that mental roll-over, I feel like I'm twirling around like crazy...
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24 |
Posts: 181
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Last Visit: 19 Jan 2011
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Mon 17 Jul, 2006 |
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When I'm trying WILD do I let my mouth hang open or close it? I almost can't feel the difference, but I'm just not sure.
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22 |
Posts: 406
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Last Visit: 17 Jan 2009
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon 17 Jul, 2006 |
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| Argitoth wrote: |
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When I'm trying WILD do I let my mouth hang open or close it? I almost can't feel the difference, but I'm just not sure. |
Why would you leave it open?  I think you close it and breathe through your nose.
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Posts: 5272
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Last Visit: 01 May 2012
LD count: 181
Location: At the foot of the Pyrenees
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| Posted: Tue 18 Jul, 2006 |
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| Robin wrote: |
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Everytime I WILD my whole body gets numb (I see that as a good thing) and I'm very relaxed, but after a time the area around my face and chest keeps me awake. That sounds crazy but, it's like that area feels like totally awake, everything is relaxed, but not there. |
You can practice a more enhanced relaxation just for these points. Just feel every muscle of your face (forehead, eyebrows, eyelids, nose, mouth) and feel them relaxed. But perhaps are you describing another thing. When your body gets numb and sort of floats, it seems that chest and face stay stuck longer to the physical body. I don't know what to do then.
| Argitoth wrote: |
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When the body is falling asleep, do you ever get the feeling like your hands are moving? Last night I felt like my fingers were moving and my hands were falling off my chest. [...]Anyone else experience this? |
Yes it's HH (more precisely somesthetic hallucinations). People who have somesthetic hallucinations should try to spin their dream body around its axis in order to enter a LD.
| Argitoth wrote: |
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When I'm trying WILD do I let my mouth hang open or close it? |
Just do the same thing you do when you fall asleep. You should better not think about your mouth indeed or you'll have the same problem than this comics character who couldn't sleep cause he didn't remember whether he slept with his beard upon or under his sheets. 
| Campusanis wrote: |
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I now get intense abstract HI after a mere minute. |
That's probably not HI but phosphenes. HI is rarely abstract. So you didn't reach the HH stage. Don't be disturbed by phosphenes and focus on your practice. Another solution is trying to zoom into phosphenes when you have them, thus they are likely to become more 3D and to transform into HI. This is not an easy technique, it requires a lot of practice.
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41 |
Posts: 246
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Last Visit: 26 Sep 2007
LD count: 1 maybe 2 LDs
Location: Hyrule
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| Posted: Tue 18 Jul, 2006 |
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| Basilus West wrote: |
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If these images were appearing spontaneously, yes it was HI. |
So all HI is, is just spontaneous images you see at the onset of sleep, right?
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59 |
Posts: 416
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Last Visit: 17 Apr 2008
Location: Worms, Germany
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| Posted: Tue 18 Jul, 2006 |
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Yes, and no. they are more then just images. When you close your eyes you almost always see spots or images, when the spots or images start turning into faces, or pictures, then that is the start of HI, sometimes the HI just seems to come unrelated to the spots or images. HI is something coherent, which means that it makes sense to you. If you are studying biology and looking at lots of cells, then what might look like a cell to you could be coherent, but might not be for someone else. I have gotten to the point of HI with my WILD lately, and now I remember that from years ago before I knew what it was. I would suddenly see something that looked like the head of a lizard, or dragon moving toward me. I would often wake up because it startled me. Now I get too excited and wake up too much. A few times in the last two weeks I got so far that a dream would start, but in the instant that it started, I would realize that I was dreaming, and wake up . But that is not too bad, because I am getting closer  and sometime I will be able to remain calm and have a real LD  .
don
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Posts: 15
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Last Visit: 18 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed 19 Jul, 2006 |
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| That's probably not HI but phosphenes. HI is rarely abstract. |
Hm, what exactly is your definition of "phosphenes". I thought, these were the bright, non-moving things you see everytime you close your eyes!?
...
Okay, just looked it up in the internet, you're right. 
I always thought, HI and phosphenes were the same...
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59 |
Posts: 416
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Last Visit: 17 Apr 2008
Location: Worms, Germany
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| YoYo WILD problem |
| Posted: Fri 21 Jul, 2006 |
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I have been working on WILD for a while now, and for the last two weeks I have been starting to dream, then falling back into the HI/relaxation/awake state. I can now stay in HI or relaxation and get into another dream within minutes, however in each dream, as soon as I know I am dreaming I pop back up into HI or relaxation. Last night I had a somwhat longer dream. I walked into a store, there was a casher on the left, and wagens on the right, then I had to go down a hall on the left behind the cashier. As I was going down the hall, I realized that I was dreaming and everything started faiding. I tried to maintan the dream, but was aware of my sleeping body, and when I tried to look at my hands, or spin, I could not move, and my awarness of my sleeping body became stronger. I had no control over my dream body. I fought to keep my awareness in the dream, but it just faided away. Then I was in bed in a relaxed state, no longer sleeping. By remaining still, I fall back into a dream within minutes, but again, as soon as I am aware that I am dreaming, back up to HI/relaxation.
Does anyone have any tips on how I can maintain the dream when I can't rub my hands, touch the walls or spin? It is strange because I am still in a first person dream, but as soon as I become lucid, I have no control over my dream body, and am aware of my sleeping body.
don
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Posts: 3575
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Last Visit: 29 Nov 2011
LD count: yes
Location: hare krishna hare krishna, krishna krishna hare hare! hare rama hare rama, rama rama hare hare!
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| Posted: Sat 22 Jul, 2006 |
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you're on the right track.
from here it is about your own learning experience and not so much ours.
i can definitely relate. and all you can really do is "yoyo" or "REM surf" there are times when your sleep is just too light to do much, and there are times where maybe you need to just stay in the HI instead of go into a dream....
because to me if you rush into HI instead of just letting them develop, you run the risk of being in a "non REM" dream, where it's kind of like, you don't have much free time, you feel like your dream body doesn't work and that you are really aware of your waking body.
like if you see this dreamscape open up, and you want to step inside it. it may be best to just sit and watch it for a while until suddenly you really are in the dreamscape.
i don't know.
being lucid in the hypnagogic state is fairly rare for me, which is a bit unfortunate since I really enjoy the process of bearing witness to the birth of dreams, from HI leading to interactive dream scene, and noting how they come to be.
i think it is very cool.
but my biggest tip. try this more towards night than morning, when your sleep is heavier, and I think REM surfing in the same way you are right now, or yoyoing.... will lead to much much longer dream adventures, just they will have periodic breaks where you have to stay still and be patient.
it can also really help to talk to any dream characters, tell them "i might be about to wake up........" and try and keep them fresh in your mind, it's like, it validates the dream as "real" and you can maybe talk to them "hey i'm coming back soon, sorry....... " or "hey can you help pull me back into the dream"
i do that a lot, because almost all the times I REM surf it's because I'm going along with a very plot oriented lucid dream, where I'm interacting with a particular figure and hanging out with them.
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NekoThe Blushing Bride
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Posts: 312
Joined: 01 May 2006
Last Visit: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sat 22 Jul, 2006 |
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| Argitoth wrote: |
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When the body is falling asleep, do you ever get the feeling like your hands are moving? Last night I felt like my fingers were moving and my hands were falling off my chest.. or whever I had my hands at the time, and this sensation caused me to want to move my hands back into position, but I knew my hands weren't moving so I didn't fall into the trap of waking my body up. |
I had an experience similar to yours, but it felt like my hands were on backwards... It was quite a funny feeling.
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26 |
Posts: 5
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Last Visit: 07 Sep 2006
Location: Bergamo, Italy
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| Posted: Sun 23 Jul, 2006 |
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I have an help request:
About a month ago I had my first WILD, but after that I didn't have a single LD!
I do WBTBs with WILD attempts almost every night, this way:
-I wake up after about 6-7 hours of sleep
-I wait about 30 minutes, going to the bathroom, reading something, writing in my DJ...
-I go back to sleep in a comfortable position
-To help myself relax and mantaining concentration I count my breaths
-After a little while I enter SP (now I can enter SP whenever I want, I had a month of costant training after all  )
-My SP is very weak, it's hard to move, but I can if I'm really willing to do so. I have just a little HI and only during transition phase or a little before
-When I am in SP, I start counting "1... I'm dreaming... 2... I'm dreaming..." and so on, at a slow rate, and restarting from 1 after reaching 100
-Now the problematic part. I count a lot. I usually get to 150 or more without even getting to transition phase
-When I've been counting a lot, I get a strange feeling. I feel just like I have to move, to change position, to exit my bed or something. Anyway, I have to move
-I try to resist, but this stresses me even more (thus reducing the probability of entering the dream-state; also, at some point I can't resist anymore and I have in fact to move. At this point, I break out of SP, and the WILD attempt is gone
-If I try to lay down again, I just lack motivation at this point
The "strange" fact is that during my only succeded WILD attempt I did exactly the same steps but I easily got to transition phase and I entered the dream after counting only to about 75. I'm quite sure that if I could make SP "faster" and thus enter transition phase earlier I could easily WILD.
I thought I was just too awake after 30 minutes of WBTB, so I tried to stay awake only for 15 minutes but I just fell asleep without entering SP completely 
What am I doing wrong? Any hints on how to enter transition phase earlier?
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23 |
Posts: 211
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Last Visit: 28 Jun 2008
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun 23 Jul, 2006 |
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No such help for you is to be coming from me, that is. I have your same problem. Although...as far as resisting the urge to move, I personally feel it is best just to relax and do what you normally would. Don't make yourself uncomfortable because you don't think you can move. Just move, and go right back to where you were. It may be a setback, as you say, at first, but you will eventually get over it.
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