Scientists can trigger OBEs in people

I would argue that they didn’t actually test the phenomenon known as OBE, but they actually tested a related concept, of how people perceive themselves. More complex testing would be required to actually “take the supernatural out of OBE”

I agree with MovieMe though. Such technology would make an awesome videogame. Or at the very least, a sci-fi thriller movie based on the concept would be pretty sweet. It’d be like another Matrix, but a little different. On second thought, there already is a movie about this concept. It’s called eXistenZ. Maybe I should just watch that again.

Reading it … it sounds like a false “OBE” and not an actual one. It’s like comparing false LDs with real ones :meh:

Very interesting, thanks for posting :smile:

Sounds more like transposed sensation than anything remotely OBE to me.

removed from big OBE topic and moved into the lounge topic which is discussing the subject :moogle:
I believe this may be of interest to some: “Scientists Recreate OBE Experience”

Personally, it’s substantially better than sleep deprivation tanks… still… it does not explain other aspects of OBEs or NDEs.

Did anyone here really buy this? I can see people with no experience in deaming and the subconscious, but this is obviously no OBE, nothing remotley close to dreaming, but rather some sort of sensory illusion.

But OBEs could be a sensory illusion as well.

I must agree that this is not a true OBE. I find this to be a way of tricking your brain.
What they described were the feeling of being outside your body… Ofcourse! I could do the same thing if I’d have a pair of videogoggles attatched to a videocamera positioned behind me. The brain is being tricked to believe that you are outside of your body. So when their backs were being thouched by a pen and they felt it, the brain interpretated it as if they were the one holding the pen against someones back and not the opposite (I think).

I’d say that this is a technical version of an OBE, though not natural.

They could be. However, the actual study that was conducted didn’t test whether they were not sensory illusion, so there is no conclusive proof that there aren’t also OBEs which are not sensory illusion.

Also, the sample wasn’t random, so there is no scientific proof anyway. The study didn’t follow proper scientific selection and procedure. It was designed to be a lead study for further research. But, as always, the news media sensationalized it with grandiose claims about the nature of existence. Through newspapers, a miniscule lead study somehow became the next breakthrough in human existence.

Also, don’t forget this is actually quoted in the report:

Unfortunately, this article doesn’t even begin to address the HUNDREDS of people who claimed to have OBE’s while in the Emergency Room and could actually recall minutes to hours of details and events that transpired while they were “dead.” If it was all “sensory illusion” how did these people observe objective events? And we’re not talking about just hearing conversations, we’re talking about people who are also able to read signs and see objects that one could only see from being outside their body. Nor does it go anywhere near the fact that many people who experience a NDE or an OBE also have a tremendous more to tell about their experience.

I, personally, have had an OBE / astral projection and it was it nothing like what was described in the article. I saw my body, read the clock, moved my head around (I could still make my body do stuff but I was watching it from above) and saw the lights in my room. I decided to keep floating upwards until I hit the Earth’s atomosphere and decided I didn’t want to leave Earth yet (since my body would die without “me” in it) and I came back and woke up…only to see the clock 1 minute later than when I looked outside my body.

If my experience was “sensory illusion” and my brain merely re-created that entire scene, Science has the burden of proof to tell me exactly how it does that…

But of course, “Science” (known today as Materialism, sadly) cannot even tell me what Perception or Consciousness is to begin with! In fact, it can’t even properly explain what the stuff my Brain is made of (Matter) really is yet and here it is trying to draw conclusions on something as ambiguous as OBE’s? What close-minded arrogance, imo.

Silly Science, when will it learn that you are not supposed to take the Supernatural out of the Science and the Science out of the Supernatural.

Could you please get me a link about people who had NDEs and observed objective events? This has piqued my interest. Otherwise I’ll just consider it fluff for now.

Unfortunately, from Science’s point of view, this sort of evidence means nothing unless it can be reproduced. If SUPERnatural phenomena could be that easily recreated, then it wouldn’t be supernatural. xP This is where Science becomes absolutely useless and breaks down.

Of course we are trying to figure out the bigger picture, but in general, we as humans know NOTHING. I agree that Science could me misconstrued as arrogant, though. It really is mere Materialism. You cannot prove the supernatural when you can only use the relatively crude technology we have today.

Heh. I agree. They are two different things…

Though if they could be combined and we did have the tools to test this sort of thing, that would be great!

What would you consider fluff to begin with since we know “nothing” in the first place? A bit confusing there.

Anyway, read some NDE’s and find out for yourself:

near-death.com/

nderf.org/site_index.htm

Either they are all lying or there might be something to them (do remember many of these are from other countries and are translated as well).

Thats another gripe I have. Exactly how does one go to define “super” natural? Science can’t even state exactly that “Natural” is to begin with (as I said, they don’t even understand what Perception or Matter is…so technically, everything can be “super” natural). To regulate truth to something that has to be reproduced in a laboratory isn’t Science, it’s then just another belief as close minded to itself that Religion is. True Science is a process that took all things into consideration and never really arrived at any definite conclusions because new evidence could surface at anytime (evidence that would occur outside the experiments) and ruin any conclusions that were drawn. That’s why everything is called a “theory.” It’s when things are taken as Facts, that’s things become troublesome.

Take this as an example: When Einstein was asked how he figured out his landmark equation e=mc2, he replied “I ignored an Axiom.” An Axiom is something that is tested enough to be drawn as a fact that is self evident. So basically, Einstein decided to ignore a self evident truth (something the current Scientific community doesn’t tend to do) only to discover that, that truth wasn’t a truth at all. Why should we ignore people’s personal experience just because axioms that circulate the Scientific community? Luckily, there have been many Scientists and Doctors who have chosen to follow Einstein’s example and have researched OBE’s and NDE’s with the perspective that Consciousness MIGHT be something outside of the Brain. This didn’t make them Spiritual or Religious in any way, but merely Scientists trying to follow their true code of ethics: find the truth, no matter what.

A heard a quote that is fitting…“When a Scientist says something is possible, he is probably correct. When a Scientist says that something is impossible, he most assuredly, is wrong.”

Agreed entirely. But I do not feel that we know “nothing”, I feel we know everything. We are just trying to find an objective reality through subjective lenses. Which I do feel we’re all going to reach anyways. The trends show this. Religions are busting at the seams, a general belief in “spirituality” is growing. People are trying to find “God” in their personal lives and find meaning to their lives and existence more than ever (thank god the Internet has arrived to hurry this process). And now Science has been bent on finding the “Theory for Everything” which ironically is still a “theory” and yet is trying to connect everything together…much like God would do for people. Science is just looking for the same God/Source/All That Is energy that Religion and Spirituality is looking for. With movies like What The @#&@* Do We Know, I feel that bridge between the two classes of thought is being bridged fast. Thank God (pun), it’s about time. :wink:

They can and they will. Science is indirectly going to prove Religion (Spirituality) correct and Religion/Spirituality is indirectly going to see how the Scientific Process is the way to master our world (in a loving way). We’re on the borderline and things can’t be much more exciting than they are. It will be awesome to see the two sides meet and Mankind will truly have our next Paradigm Shift.

I bring you yet another interesting little snippet I ran across - it’s short, but it does raise some interesting questions and stimulates the imagination for future lucid dreaming endeavours :content: :

ABC News

[mod]merged with existing topic :moh:[/mod]

Great minds think alike, I suppose.

Interesting topic.

That is interesting.
I wonder what it means by touching them physically and virtually.

Virtually is where they perceive they are through the VR-camera which is aimed at their back. Physically is their really body.

Yes, but touching them virtually?
Maybe it is the phrasing but I don’t understand it.

I liked Ego Tripping’s reply a lot.

No one can take the Supernatural out of OBE’s, until everyone naturally has them. Then it wouldn’t be super anymore so to speak. :tongue: There are plenty of liars in this world of ours, but a good amount of truthful people also. Some of them have had OBE’s, and described it to the best of their ability. You can’t force belief on anyone, as much as a lot of religions would like to believe they could…

I like natural things, I like different things, but Supernatural things are the highlights in my life. It’s not a matter of belief for me, it’s a matter of experience. Real or illusory, my mind still recalls those experiences.

Read about remote viewing, and tell me they’re all lying. :content:

Merged into existing topic

This is incredible stuff, check this video out on youtube youtube.com/watch?v=4PQAc_Z2OfQ

for articles from loads of news sites do a google search for ‘out of body experience virtual reality’

Now look at this article which is one of the links from the google search

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6960612.stm

It says the following

'The researchers say their findings could have practical applications, such as helping take video games to the next level of virtuality so the players feel as if they are actually inside the game.

Clinically, surgeons might also be able to perform operations on patients thousands of miles away by controlling a robotic virtual self.’

Ok now with this Virtual Reality HMD (Head Mounted Display) way of inducing OBE’s is really interesting but how you can take video gaming to the next level i don’t quite understand, because currently you play video games using game controllers like on the playstation 3. Now if you are projecting your consciousness outside your body using the HMD then how will you be able to control the video game. I do believe you can enter the video game but the game will be constantly being made up on the fly in your mind. Because currently video games have a game engine, a set of rules and codes set forth in the game engine by the game programmers, how will your consciousness be able to control the game if your consciousness is outside your body? would i not be right to say that it cannot control the game as the game controller will be in your hand but you will be out side your body. How would this work then? My belief is scrap the video game idea away. Instead once using the HMD induction for an OBE once you have projected out just remember your favorite game and try to jump into that virtual world in your mind. if you do a google search other articles states you can go inside your virtual character and feel him and it’s as real as truly being there. Right now if your playing a roller coaster simulator on a PC with a HMD when that roller coaster goes up side down on a loop you cannot feel the sensation as you have no hydraulic simulator but if your outside of the body then all senses are stimulated like when we dream so it’s possible to use the HMD induction and then think of a roller coaster and ride it and view yourself making loops and feeling the G’s which truly makes you feel like your there.

Another thing even if the article is true with you being able to go inside current video games then i do believe it’s possible, but your mind will be setting your own game rules and not following the current set of games rules set forth by the game engine, so your mind will be over riding the game, which means you could do anything you want and in a lot of current games you cannot do anything you want.
For instance if the game is a shooting game like the ever popular first person shooter on say the playstation 3 then as that game has been programmed to be controlled using the PS3 games controller analogue sticks then if you are projecting your self into the game character then you would probably want to look at your virtual selfs hands but when you bring them up to view them then that’s not actually whats happening in the real world, as you will be sitting in the real world with a real playstation 3 contoller in your hand but your conciounsess will not be in your real self it will infact be in your virtual self in the game. So current games programmers will have to learn new ways on how to interpret brain signals to control games in this new way. Or perhaps when we look at the article in a deeper way it could mean the projected self can some how send back concious signals to your real physical body telling it to move the game controller and control the virtual character in the game world. So what could be happening is your simply are on auto poilot a bit like driving a car, every body has had that experience where there driving their car and suddenly slip into a day dream and suddenly moments later there back in their car and have noticed they have driven several miles, this is a kind of out of body expeience in it self or a dual split of consciousness. I have had this experience many times. This could be the future of playing video games.

The other thing i don’t understand is the articles states you can perform remote surgery i honestly don’t know how that can work. I thought you need your real self to perform the surgery as your projected self cannot interact with the real world. Other parts of the article states the neuro scientist as saying this HMD induction has proven that this technique is a sort of tele portation where you can be any where in the world, again i don’t see that as possible. Of course an OBE can do that to you but you cannot use this tele portation as a means to get any where in the world for interactions as in getting around like this to meet for business meetings.

Anyway what are your views on this?

This is very exciting stuff as it has finally be scientifically validated as a healthy and real way of inducing an OBE. I would like to try this, all you need is an HMD and a camcorder, tripod setup. you can buy HMD’s for less than 150 dollars these days, of course from the videos i have seen the HMD’s they are using for the experiments seem to costs several thousands of dollars, the test is done using eye fixation on a virtual character of your self, so perhaps you need a HMD with a large field of view and you don’t really get that on HMD’s under 500 dollars. I think we should do some testing on this OBE induction there are no DIY plans on the net yet for this induction but like i said not too hard to make your own version. I had an idea a few years ago of doing this kind of VR induction using a HMD and a roller coaster simulator on a PC while lying down. I thought if you ride a roller coaster using a HMD then perhaps from the loops that your eyes are witnessing perhaps you could feel the g’s in a psychosomatic way and that may create pressure on your chest which could lock you into sleep paralysis and bring on vibrations for a fully conscious OBE. Perhaps neuro sciencetist will try similar test in the future or we as a community could rapidly speed up research on this VR induction of OBE’s.

Edit: update

KBTVonline has a new special video here about the test above conducted by Olaf Blanke, i forgot to mention a few years ago Professor Olaf Blanke conducted research in to OBE’s, he was treating a woman for epilepsy using electrodes and the woman reported seeing her own body from the view point from the ceiling.

Videos

part 1 youtube.com/watch?v=bCc63N4XAaM

part 2 youtube.com/watch?v=PWtsdCAEYvg

Has anybody got British and American newspaper scans of this virtual reality goggle experiment?