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Lucid Dreaming - Cheating ourselves from Real Dreaming?

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Ego Tripping
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Lucid Dreaming - Cheating ourselves from Real Dreaming?
PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007  Reply with quote

<mod>moved to general lucidness from lounge moogle </mod>

I'm reading a book right now by Robert Moss called Conscious Dreaming.

His argument is that Lucid Dreaming is actually inhibitory of what Dreams are "made of." When we Lucid Dream or soley focus on Lucid Dreaming, we cut off the messages that we are receiving from Dream Source (or God or Spirit or Higher Self) in exchange for satisfying Egoic desires that we have in waking life (sex, physical stimulus, etc..). He proposes we let the Dream World we experience run it's course and read into the messages we receive.

Although, he does agree with the term "Conscious Dreaming" in which we realize we are dreaming and thus try and decipher the message whilst dreaming, instead of trying to read into it once we are awake and have lost much recollection of the dream itself.

Opinions?


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Genkai
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PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007  Reply with quote

No. Lucid Dreaming is simply creative self expression on the palette of your Dreamscape. I agree that the messages we recieve from our dreams can be important, but considering that the majority of people today don't even believe that they dream, can Lucid Dreaming be all that bad in comparison?

And I would think that satisfying Egoic desires on the dreamscape would make you want them less in waking life, so if anything it is beneficial. lachgroen


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Vagabondage
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PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007  Reply with quote

I see no harm in Lucid Dreaming since I have never tried to decipher these messages from God/higher spirits/etc... (and my normal dreams are usually much more strange and "physically stimulating" than my lucid dreams seeing as I quite often fail in accomplishing my goal... lach1)

What's wrong with satisfying "egoic desires" in a place where we cannot harm others? Where else would we satisfy them?


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Draginvry
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PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007  Reply with quote

Genkai wrote:

And I would think that satisfying Egoic desires on the dreamscape would make you want them less in waking life, so if anything it is beneficial. lachgroen


I would have to agree with this. Since, one way or another, the supposed dreams that you'd be having while not lucid dreaming would somehow be related to such desires anway.

I mean, have you ever not had a dream that didn't relate somehow to some deep desire?


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Hemming
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PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007  Reply with quote

Draginvry wrote:
I mean, have you ever not had a dream that didn't relate somehow to some deep desire?
*can count 2 years of constant nightmares*


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PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007  Reply with quote

Hemming wrote:
Draginvry wrote:
I mean, have you ever not had a dream that didn't relate somehow to some deep desire?
*can count 2 years of constant nightmares*


I'm not so sure nightmares aren't hinting at something. I have always found that dreams I would consider nightmares are always trying to get me to face something that I'm trying to ignore. At some level fulfilling my desire to face that demon...



Current LD goal(s): Become a Dragon! RAWR!
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Hemming
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PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007  Reply with quote

yes, but the problem with my nightmares is that they're always a monster killing someone i know instead of killing me.

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PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007  Reply with quote

My best guess as a response to that, would be that you feel you can't help others or are worried about others getting hurt around you and you will be powerless to help. I'm not a psychologist and dreams are a very personal thing. If dreams do have a meaning the best person to figure out that meaning is you smile I do know that with me, looking at why I might be having the nightmare, and trying to deal with the problem consciously. I can really get somewhere and the nightmares tend to stop too grin


Current LD goal(s): Become a Dragon! RAWR!
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Ego Tripping
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PostPosted: Sat 01 Sep, 2007  Reply with quote

Dragon73 wrote:
Hemming wrote:
Draginvry wrote:
I mean, have you ever not had a dream that didn't relate somehow to some deep desire?
*can count 2 years of constant nightmares*


I'm not so sure nightmares aren't hinting at something. I have always found that dreams I would consider nightmares are always trying to get me to face something that I'm trying to ignore. At some level fulfilling my desire to face that demon...


You would agree with the author then, as he says Nightmares are merely unfinished dreams where we haven't seen what our Source is trying to tell us.

I agree with the Author but I also agree with you guys. I think both states are equally important. I feel Lucid Dreaming has brought me tremendous insight regarding my "reality" that I am experiencing as I type this and exactly what "real" is...but I also feel that sometimes we should relinquish control to our Higher Selves and receive the messages that could be there for us to help us better our lives instead of trying to control the dreamworld to fulfill personal desires.


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farseeker
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PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep, 2007  Reply with quote

Maybe it's just because I am such a novice, but at this point I don't see it as an either/or proposition. When I lucid dream, I do not consciously envision the whole dreamscape. Mostly I'm just manipulating part of the dream environment and seeing where it leads. Sometimes the dream seems to be actively responding to what I am doing in such a way that it is clear what kind of issues I am dealing with. This is not possible with a non-lucid dream where you get only what you are given (which may be no more than an ambiguous or cryptic cypher).

So if dreams carry any kind of deeper meaning, I think one would be much more able to receive that meaning while lucid, rather than non-lucid. Trying to interpret ordinary dreams usually seems like a bit iffy to me, to say the least. At least if one can interact with the dream, one could possibly achieve greater clarity as to the exact import.


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ThePromethean
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PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep, 2007  Reply with quote

perhaps if ever single rem periood of someones night was lucid, it might be a debatable point. but no ones lucid everysingle dream, and even if they were it probably wouldnt matter anyway. unless every single detail of the dream was consciously placed there, we could still recieve messages. besides, we a re far better placed to pick up on them whilst lucid anyway

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PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep, 2007  Reply with quote

Ego Tripping wrote:
You would agree with the author then, as he says Nightmares are merely unfinished dreams where we haven't seen what our Source is trying to tell us.

I agree with the Author but I also agree with you guys. I think both states are equally important. I feel Lucid Dreaming has brought me tremendous insight regarding my "reality" that I am experiencing as I type this and exactly what "real" is...but I also feel that sometimes we should relinquish control to our Higher Selves and receive the messages that could be there for us to help us better our lives instead of trying to control the dreamworld to fulfill personal desires.


Whilst I might agree with the author that nightmares may carry messages (Or you may gain insight by seeing how your own mind is trying to deal with something smile ) I really don't like the wording of "Cheating Ourselfs From" In all my experiance any form of higher guidance, will wait until you are ready and then will keep on at you until you 'get it'. wink5

If you are ready to recieve guidance / learn things from dreams, I doubt your mind would let you just ignore it I believe dreams are created as much by the sub-consious as the consious mind. I know nobody who has compleate control over their dreams smile So basically this doesn't concern me too much, I don't think improving my ability to connect with / understand / influence my sub consious is going to hinder my spiritual growth, quite the opposite. ^^ (If you couldn't tell )



Current LD goal(s): Become a Dragon! RAWR!
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krakatoa
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Sep, 2007  Reply with quote

If this point was brought up before I guess I missed it. Some scientists believe that dreams are 'practise' for potential situations. Like social interaction, motorskills and survival. There is not necessarily anything your subconscious is trying to tell you. That is not to say there is nothing to find out. If dreams are practise then we can absolutely keep practising even if we become lucid. Though most of us would probably want to do something more fun, wich makes it a question of dicipline.

I personally believe that the subconsious tries to send out messages. It doesn't make sense to me. If the subconscious needed something to become conscious I think you would simply become conscious of it. And a very cryptic message seems like a very inefficient way to do it. The dream interpretation methods I have read about could easily be applied to waking life to give it a meaning or "message".

But what do I know about dreams anyway?


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warrior
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Sep, 2007  Reply with quote

I actually got tired of my LDs always following the same pattern.
Dreaming normal dreams can be as exciting as having a LD.


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The Nameless One
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Re: Lucid Dreaming - Cheating ourselves from Real Dreaming?
PostPosted: Wed 12 Sep, 2007  Reply with quote

Ego Tripping wrote:
Opinions?

*sniff sniff* I smell bigotry...

Bull****, if you really want to know.

warrior wrote:
Dreaming normal dreams can be as exciting as having a LD.

Not if you are me.




Last edited by The Nameless One on Sat 15 Sep, 2007; edited 1 time in total
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