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Most Important Question! Ask Yourself!

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Yves
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

Agreed ^

Also, drifters sometimes drift to gain knowledge. Or to just experience the world. Not every human on earth wants the same thing; that's just unrealistic. Also, eternity isn't that long. Humankind will most likely destroy itself even before our sun goes super nova. And even if we remain alive that long, then what? We have no home. Thus, we'll drift.



Current LD goal(s): Stabilize a dream and explore it.
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Wond3rland
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

Tonchiki I do use the terms loosely. Or more symbolic. A house being a form of control and like a personal space. And age aside I hope u want a family. We were put here to learn to love. The family being the greatest of joys.

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Yves
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

Not necessarily, Wonderland. Lone wolves do exist. There are people who don't want a family, don't want acceptance. Surely you can't say that they wander, then, to find acceptance and a family. And if we were 'put' here to learn to love, then we're doing a terrible job at it. If you look at human psychology in general, aggression is the dominant emotion. That's hardwired in our brains, it's not subjective.


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Wond3rland
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

Exactly, making love the answer... and agression the problem. And to the lone wolves, I love to be alone. Bust just as emotions are harddwired so is the desire to procreate and the best way to procreate is with a family. Who would try to debate this???

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30
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

Wond3rland wrote:
Exactly, making love the answer... and agression the problem. And to the lone wolves, I love to be alone. Bust just as emotions are harddwired so is the desire to procreate and the best way to procreate is with a family. Who would try to debate this???


Excuse me? You speak of 'why we were put here' as if it is hard and fast. I was under the impression that is subjective, also, please don't assume that we were 'put here' in the first place thanks. That is your opinion, not necessarily others.

There are plenty who would debate your point, since it revolves around purpose of being here. It can be argued that those drives are remains of age old herding instincts, and natural selection. (Those with the strongest desire to mate, being the ones who do so. Those with the best territory, being the most likely to mate. Those with traits to protect their young and mates being more adept to survive certain circumstances.. etc etc) In that light, they are left-over patterns, not necessarily the point of being here and/or being concious.

This topic has gone way off course and on to a religious debate of the purpose of existence. Wasn't the original question posed "Do dreams take your mind to a place, or take place in your mind?"

---

My answer to the question, is that dreams are an experience. To answer one way or the other requires assumptions about the nature of the mind and the nature of places. I'm no sure I could answer comfortably one way or the other.

To me a dream is a change of our area of focus and in many cases a change in the nature of that focus. Maybe the focus goes onto ourselves, maybe it goes onto other things, maybe a mix of the two. So I guess you could say I believe they take place in the mind, but I feel that isn't 100% accurate.



Current LD goal(s): Become a Dragon! RAWR!
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dreamwalker
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

I think one of the biggest mind F**** is when you are LDing and you stop and think this: My body is laying in bed asleep right now, I am standing here in my dream that I am dreaming as my body sleeps, everything around me I am mentally making myself yet I stand here, So I stand here surrounded by myself in side of myself.

Yeah try giving that a try.


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Wond3rland
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

I do not want to try to be too too "I know it all" but Christian theology is the only one to hold ALL answers. Doesn't mean others are wrong. Just unfulfilled or complete. We WERE put here and i'm sorry for the people hiding behind the veil of "well everybodys right in their own way" We have to come to a census. Are there things wrong with Christians, yes. However science answers how and cannot dare to begin to answer why.

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Wond3rland
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

God is the only solid truth we have. And I believe he doesn't get caught up in cemantics of " what u call him." just have something higher than human consciouxness. My heart ales for the athiest only believing in what can be touched. So sadly mistaking with a loss sense of child like wonder and imagination.

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Yves
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

Wonderland, stop spouting your beliefs at others. LD4all isn't your mission, and likewise there's no one here who wish to receive it. You have beliefs, that's great, but there's a fine line between having beliefs and spreading propaganda. Just be mindful of that.

@dreamwalker: That definitely seems like a mindf***. LDing in general is so...unreal. It's just crazy to think that we can control and create a world that doesn't even "exist" as we know it. Just the thought of dreams is somewhat absurd if you think about it.



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Tonch
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

@ Wond3rland: I'm sorry, I don't believe in God, or any god for that matter-- I'm what you'd call an agnostic atheist.

So I don't really buy that whole thing. It's not a loss of childlike creativity and wonder-- in fact, being an aspiring animator and cartoonist, I'm in that frame of mind almost constantly. I take in a lot of what others miss out on due to not having that sense of wonder and ability to have fun with what you have. I absolutely enjoy it, and this is part of the reason dreaming interests me-- it's basically unadulterated fantasy, in which you can experience anything you want.

So I'd appreciate it if you didn't describe everyone who doesn't believe in God as having lost their inner child and sense of imagination. Because that's as shallow as they come.

EDIT: And quite frankly, I'm insulted by that "my heart aches for atheists" line.
EDIT 2: No, you know what, I'm offended by that whole set of posts.


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burning_idle
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

I think that this thread has been derailed long enough, no?

Wonderland, you ought to have more respect for other peoples beliefs, we're here to talk about the nature of dreams, not whose belief system is better.

****

I personally think that dreams take place in the mind. They can only take our minds to a place in the loosest of senses; such as meditation may take our minds to a calm place, or at times of stress we may look for a happy place within ourselves. It is my belief that it is in that sense alone that dreams may take us places.


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Re: Most Important Question! Ask Yourself!
PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

Wond3rland wrote:
Do dreams take your mind to a place, or take place in your mind?


Off topic posts beyond here will be removed. dragon



Current LD goal(s): Become a Dragon! RAWR!
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relV
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

Well.. What is a place ?

If you sit down and imagine a park with indigo bricks and yellow trees , is it in your mind ? (yes?..)

But what if I can see it too ? What if you can see yourself there and I could to meet you and we could talk ? Would is still be in your mind ? Would it be in our mind ? Or would it be out there ?

If you can feel the trees , hear the birds, and smell the flowers in that park, just like you can a dream , what makes it any less real than physical reality ? If I can come join you in that park ? It's different but it's still a reality.


Where do you think that 'physical reality' takes place ?

When you look up at the stars tonight,

realize that you're not actually seeing any stars. They're not there. Those are patterns light that the stars left behind them millions of years ago as they moved..

Reality is information. Information is processed in your neo-cortex and you experience what you consider to be 'reality'.

If you put a snake in the room, it experiences something completely different. His primary sense is that of heat. He moves and acts heat waves. Every creature sees the same pieces of information according to his own system.


Either everything is taking place in your mind, or every experience is having your mind be at some place.

The fact that one environment doesn't have the same qualities as another doesn't give one superiority over the other.


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Valerys
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PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

To make your post much shorter, I would say that:
Both dream and reality are a product of our mind, both dream and reality exists because we want to, without our senses there wouldn't be any dream or reality.

I believe that dreams take place both in our mind and beyond it. It would have made sense to be only in our mind, but what about shared dreams? Even if we are not actually getting out of body there still is a connection between the dreamers.


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Tonch
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PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug, 2009  Reply with quote

Valerys wrote:
It would have made sense to be only in our mind, but what about shared dreams? Even if we are not actually getting out of body there still is a connection between the dreamers.
Has anyone actually proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt yet?

Even remembering codes isn't foolproof-- the mind already re-creates a lot of the dream when you try to recall it, so who's to say it can't fabricate the code as well?
The mind is a powerful thing, and if you want to have a shared dream badly enough, chances are you "will".


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