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Not quite clear about how to achieve certain things...

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Xerosnake90
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Not quite clear about how to achieve certain things...
PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

I very recently started studying Lucid dreaming. I immediatally tried the WILD technique on the first night to get started on my journey. I've searched the forums for some answers but can't quite get to what I want, so I wanted to create a post.

In my first night of WILD, I found a position comfortable to be in. I relaxed, did not move, and controlled the urges to itch or swallow. I did not experience the 'roll over signal urge'. Or at least I cannot recall. I was at it for possibly 20-40 minutes. I started counting at 1, saying I'm dreaming after every number. As I got to about 40 or so, I'd start seeing flashes of images, or short scenarios that'd play out with sound. I would thensnap out of it so to speak and count again. After a while of the same thing, I started experiencing numbness in both of my arms, one which was under my body. I thought it was jut me cutting off the blood and soon I snapped out of it.

My second night I was interrupted by my mom and snapped out of it, only to quickly fall asleep the second time around. So here are some questions.

Is it normal to see those flashes of scenario and sound? I imagine the point is to stay awake through those but I feel like I just wake myself up and then start counting again. After I count some more, I see those flashes again, then 'wake up from it' until whatever happens. Is me 'waking up' and counting what I'm supposed to do to stop myself from falling asleep and continue on the journey to entering a dream? THe person who showed me the site explained that sleep paralyis should be the first thing to happen before you see anything but that can't be right I experienced no sleep paralysis, and Im sure I didn't cuz I've woken up to being in SP. Was the numbness I felt normal? I only had one arm underneath my body and I'm not sure if it could've cut off the blood. But both of my arms felt like I didn't know what position they were in anymore and both became numb. The start of SP?

All answers would be appreciated, please don't say its been answered before and to search it out because I did. I couldn't find the answers to the specifics the way I just said it. It feels almost like it's impossible for me to be able to enter the lucid state, so I will continue to do so and hopefully I learn from each experience. I've been recording my dreams to see habits, but I find it hard o talk to myself in my dreams as of lately. Lucidity used to be quite easy for me, but it hasn't happened in a while.


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EllyEve
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Quote:
Is it normal to see those flashes of scenario and sound?

Yes indeedy, they're called hypnagogic hallucinations or hypnagogic imagery, abbreviated here as HI. They're kind of like the trailers to the feature film of your dream.

Quote:
Is me 'waking up' and counting what I'm supposed to do to stop myself from falling asleep and continue on the journey to entering a dream?

Not if it actually wakes you up. You need to be asleep to lucid dream. I've also been told the sleep paralysis is inevitable, but I don't notice if sleep paralysis settles in before I enter the dream. It's not so much as my waking body becoming numb, as I become much less aware of how it feels or what it's doing, and more aware of the dream world.

Have you tried: letting the HI become as vivid as it can get, and then either stepping into the dream or grabbing an item from that image?


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darksage
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Whenever I try WILD its the exact same. I start hearing sounds and seeing images and then I snap back to full consciousness/wide awake with my eyes closed. I cant seem to passively but consciously enter the dream, if I try with a conscious mind its like im forcing it and ruins the whole passive side of the WILD.

What it is for me, is when the HI is first coming on it feels natural and is fine. My mind is somewhat conscious, as in I know what the intent is, but once the HI gets going a little bit I bring on a full conscious thought that ruins the whole "natural" feel and then the HI is gone, and thats when I know im just lying in my bed with my eyes closed.


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Xerosnake90
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

darksage wrote:
.What it is for me, is when the HI is first coming on it feels natural and is fine. My mind is somewhat conscious, as in I know what the intent is, but once the HI gets going a little bit I bring on a full conscious thought that ruins the whole "natural" feel and then the HI is gone, and thats when I know im just lying in my bed with my eyes closed.


This is EXACTLY what happens with me. Last night, I was positive I experienced sleep paralysis manually. I got kinda excited and felt my heart beat race up and I calmed myself down, then I felt my entire body have these strange waves of energy move up from them in sets of 3 or 4s. At this point I was thinking "Come on scenery, I need something to step into!" but it never came. I started to realize I was just unable to move without a dream world so I subcounciously woke myself up more and finally moved.

Thanks for the reply about the HI. I think a reason I don't cross over is because when I see HI, I alway read to watch it passively and to stay concious, but I'd basically wake myself up by going back to counting. I'll remember tonight to try and watch the images and let them actually develop, and allow myself to enter them. I'm making progress, I feel myself becoming closer every night I try it.


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Shadow Dreamer
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

You are very close! In my only successful WILD experience, I never noticed SP but the HI quickly developed into a picture, then a movie, and then I almost lost consciousness as I felt myself become a part of it.
It can be hard to not think about what is happening and let it occur (which is the reason I've only had one WILD ) but you can do it! Good luck and have fun!


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mattias
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

You're doing great smile

First thing, don't worry about categorizing stages such as SP and HI. I very rarely feel SP or HI when I WILD. A lot of people do, yes, but I've seen too many people thinking like "I can't even get to SP! I'll never have a LD...". On the other hand, when you do get these it means you are really close.

HI can be really delicate at first. As soon as HI appears, simply moving your eyes or shifting your attention to it can make it go away (what you called 'waking up', I know exactly what that is like). I fail miserably at that ^^ Most HI I get I kinda gain consciousness when it's already developped so it's easier to look at and passively watch. So it's tricky to focus on those first HI's, but it's just a matter of practice, after a while you'll start getting a "feel" for how you should look at them.

SP, the fast heartrate and the vibrations are also good signs. Unfortunately "Come on scenery, I need something to step into!" doesn't help sadblauw excitement, desperation and hurry will only make these things go away. (It's hard to control excitement, I know! ) But the trick is simply to relax and clear your mind, focusing on what's happenening without judging or expecting anything.

Your arm under your body might have lost circulation, but it's hard to tell. Numbness usually comes a bit before SP too. And the whole "not being sure where your arms are" thing is really good. When you stop feeling your body you can try to imagine up a new dream body. Imagine your arms are streached out touching the wall, try to recreate the feeling in your mind. I've done this a few times and after a while you actually start feeling the imagined wall, and then you have something to hold onto!

Wall of text, yay. grin Good luck!


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Xerosnake90
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses. The toughest thing for me right now I could say is staying 'aware' during the HI episodes. Once these 'videos' show up, I feel complete loss of knowing. It's when I nap myself out of these things that I realize I've just seen an imagine, so I do believe I'll need to somehow just get used to these things. Now that I understand more about the process, maybe I'll be able to understand them as they happen.

I definetely tried the 'being paralyzed and trying to reach out with a 'dream' hand thing. It was unsuccesful though as my mind was so wide awake even though my body was shut down. I felt I was way past the HI stage and should just try to sleep for the night.

Another question. Ever since trying, I've been waking up around 6 am, three hours before I usually wake up for work, but my body naturally wakes me up. I don't remember any dreams before hand, and it seems I do mostly dream 5-6 hours after I start sleep. After I wake up and go back to sleep, I almost ALWAYS dream. Now I know the WBTB technique describes to wake up and go back to sleep after having already slept, as it will initiate lucidity somewhat easier, my question is, how do I go now? I'm just sleepy at that point and how long it takes for me to fall asleep is random. Do I just try to initiate and WILD technique or is there a whole nother way of approaching from this point? Thx for the help, much appreciated =]


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EllyEve
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Yup, you can try the WILD method before the second sleep if you're doing the WBTB. You can also try to remember what you just dreamed, and it's very likely if you're sleepy enough that the second dream will just be a continuation of that dream. If you recognize something from the first dream, you can become lucid.

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Xerosnake90
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

EllyEve wrote:
Yup, you can try the WILD method before the second sleep if you're doing the WBTB. You can also try to remember what you just dreamed, and it's very likely if you're sleepy enough that the second dream will just be a continuation of that dream. If you recognize something from the first dream, you can become lucid.


Ohhh, great idea. I'll try to remember to use that if I dreamt before I awake.


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Lord Antares
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

I know some people already answered your questions, but I'll repeat and add something just to make it clear smile

So...Is seeing flashes normal?
Yes, it is. It's actually even desirable. When you see that, you know that the HH have started.
Now, to do it right, you should stay calm and just focus on the images a little. Not to much tho, since you snap out of it.
If you do it right, you will notice more and more of this. This is good, because it should develop into dream scenery, and then you will be free to step into your dream.
So, you mustn't snap out of it wink5

As for the last question, yes, it's even more desirable to do WILD after some sleep, than when going to bed for the first time.
You see, once you wake up after sleeping for several hours, you're still sleepy and your body is willing to go into a dream much quicker.
That's why it's recommended to do WILD in the morning.

That's it I think...remind me if I skipped a question. Good luck! :D


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Xerosnake90
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Well, last night's attempt feels somewhat fruitless. The HI started maybe 5-10 minutes after I layed down. They would flash, then I would snap out of them. I was trying to just settle down and let them stay, so I started watching them. After a while I felt like I was, but they seemed to be dying out in intensity and I was just laying there again with my eyes closed. It felt like I tried WILD, failed, and that I jut needed to sleep and try again. I'll continue to try, and not want it too much since that can be an issue.

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