A loop hole about teaching christianty in school...
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#16:  Author: NotGuest PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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Kav, you're definately not an atheist w/ post like your 2nd to last one there.
Do you mean like teaching Bible, but not christianity? Theres a lot of good stuff in the Bible, (some nonsense too), which could be taught.
It'd be interesting if they taught a good amount ABOUT all the major religions in school. I think that'd actually be a good idea.

#17:  Author: Kashmir PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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Hmm... I see what you're saying, kavaa, but I need to say a few things myself.

First of all, I don't see atheism being forced on Christians anywhere. Of course, there's the guy that wanted "Under God" removed from the pledge, but in my opinion, if you don't want to say "under God", just don't say it--you're not going to get arrested or looked down on! I don't know about other schools in the country, but there's no rule at my school commanding students to recite the pledge; they merely have to stand up in recognition of the flag, say the Pledge if they want, and pause silently for a moment (for reflection, respect for those defending the flag you just pledged to, prayer, whatever you want to do with it).

I also understand that many Christians discuss their faith as if everyone else believed it. This saddens me, because it makes Christians as a whole seem close-minded and forceful. I would just like to say, speaking for myself and a large number of Christians, that not all Christians force their faith on others.

As for a way to teach the Bible in school without focusing on religion: take parts from it for different classes, for example: my World History textbook contains a subchapter describing the early Jews, and references the books of Genesis, Exodus, etc. It doesn't force God on anyone; rather, it gives a description of the Jew's belief system as being the first monotheistic religion, just as it describes the religious beliefs developed by the other early civilizations.

Another idea that your post gave me, kavaa: perhaps a philosophy class. Taking elements from the Bible and holy books of other faiths and focusing on morals rather than the beliefs. Of course, this class would be voluntary.

All in all, I think we all just need to learn to get along. smile

NotGuest: I like your idea about teaching world religions... perhaps it would make people more educated when discussing religion, there's nothing that angers me quite like two people arguing over religion that know absolutely nothing about each other's beliefs.

#18:  Author: gerbenvanetten PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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In my highschool we never got taught 'religion', but they did teach us 'levensbeschouwing' - litteral translation would be 'way of observing your life'. They simply covered most of the religions, from islam to buddhism to satanism (which doesn't have anything to do with worshipping the devil, as many say here). They didn't force it on us. Just a peek inside the ways of thinking of different religions.

God bless the Netherlands wink5

#19:  Author: Kashmir PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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Ah, I think that was what NotGuest was talking about... sounds good.

And off-topic, but who's that in your avatar? It looks like Jim Carrey.

#20:  Author: Lebowsk1 PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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The Bible has had such a huge impact on history that I think it should be taught in schools but not as an indoctrination device.

In other words the Bible should be examined from a historical, social, literary, political and even philosophical perspective but NOT from a Christian perspective. And not the whole thing either because there wouldnt be any time to study other comparable texts of other faiths which put it into context.

#21:  Author: Kava PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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The only way I could see schoos teaching the bible, is to teach other religions, or books in the same class. If you just teach the bible your teaching Christianty.

#22:  Author: Animahngo PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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The only way I could see schoos teaching the bible, is to teach other religions, or books in the same class. If you just teach the bible your teaching Christianty.

Exactly. Besides, a fricken semester spent of just the bible would get boring fast. I'd was to study the teachings of Tibetan Monks and things. Satanism would be neato to read up on, because of all the misconceptions about the name. Spiritulism, and things of the sort...

#23:  Author: Animahngo PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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Call the class, like, 'Religious Beliefs and Spiritual Speculation'.

Though I'd be much happier if they cut out religious beliefes and just came out with a 'Spiritual Speculation' class. Frankly, Spiritual Speculation would be a class much more fun and imaginative than the others....

#24:  Author: whispa PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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Kashmir wrote:
I also understand that many Christians discuss their faith as if everyone else believed it.

That's been one of my problems with religious people. I have some christian relatives who take their religion very seriously. I understand it helps them but sometimes they talk about it like nothing else is important and you feel like they're looking down on you.

#25:  Author: Nice Dream PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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Here is my opion on the subject.

I feel that religion and the Bible should be allowed in the public schools. I also believe that it should be taught in our schools. For the simple fact that I dont feel it causes any harm to anyone. Now I do not think it should be a requirement or forced on anyone in our schools. It should be there as an option for people that want to better understand religion and the Bible.

#26:  Author: quiXote PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005
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the bible should be taught in school.
christianty, hinduism, judaism, buddhism, islam, paganism, wikkan, etc... should all be taught... historically or philosophically.
all religions should be taught, in an unbiased manner in order to present more religious understanding.
i know almost nothing about islam, almost nothing about hinduism...
i really wish that in school i was taught about these religions comparitively, as to have a greater understanding of the people of the world.

christians promoting christianity is no worse then atheist promoting atheism.
i do not follow 'mainstream' christianity. it would make me very uncomfortable to have any other denomination other then my own in a 'public' prayer, as it would make me feel uncomfortable to express my prayers to people not of my faith.
a moment of silence can be observed if needs be, but that should be done on personal time, school is for learning - not postulating. if the major religions of the world were taught in schools, religious tolerence and understanding would be wonderful benefits.

the day this country removes god from its design, from its money, from its monuments, from its pledge - will be the day that i stop defending it.
i will desert and goto australlia or something... it would be to much drama, the constitution wouldnt be worth defending anymore.

x

#27:  Author: Dreamer PostPosted: Mon 10 Oct, 2005
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In England, in primary school (first six years of school) you're taught that christianity is fact (at least I was in my school). You also have to sing hymns, no matter what religion you are. I don't think it's a coincidence that the first six years of school is when you're at an age that you believe everything you're told. I think it's awful to teach religion in schools, it's something everyone should make they're own minds up about.

Oh, and about Atheism being as much about faith as religion, I'd define Atheism as not believing in God, instead of believing in no God, there's a difference.

Nice Dream wrote:
I also believe that it should be taught in our schools. For the simple fact that I dont feel it causes any harm to anyone.


Sometimes christianity does harm people. In certain types you're told that you're a sinner, and you sin all the time. Being told this consistantly from a young age can give many people guilt problems when they're older. They feel guilty about everything, because of everything being their fault when they were younger.

#28:  Author: Shaper PostPosted: Tue 11 Oct, 2005
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Here in Canada we cannot 'preach' christianity or the bible, but we can teach about it, as well as other religions, because many of our public highschools offer a course which I think is called World religions. We also offer places for prayer, like at Christmas time, or when you must pray 5 times a day towards Mecca, that sort of thing. But we don't force religion on students at all....well, not unless you go to a Catholique School

#29:  Author: Tomas PostPosted: Tue 11 Oct, 2005
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Quote:
In England, in primary school (first six years of school) you're taught that christianity is fact (at least I was in my school). You also have to sing hymns, no matter what religion you are. I don't think it's a coincidence that the first six years of school is when you're at an age that you believe everything you're told. I think it's awful to teach religion in schools, it's something everyone should make they're own minds up about.

Indeed.. The same thing is going on here in Norway.. You are forced to take christianity lessons in pubic school.. It was however possible to apply for a different kind of class instead, if you are for example a jew or in a another religion. But that is not always a nice/quick process to go through and i think they even removed that option now, which means that they will force even non christians.

#30:  Author: Dreamer PostPosted: Tue 11 Oct, 2005
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[quote=Tomas]Indeed.. The same thing is going on here in Norway.. You are forced to take christianity lessons in pubic school.. It was however possible to apply for a different kind of class instead, if you are for example a jew or in a another religion. But that is not always a nice/quick process to go through and i think they even removed that option now, which means that they will force even non christians.[/quote]

Well, I've come to the conclusion that people don't care as much about children's rights as they do adult's. Imagine if every adult was forced to atend a session every day telling them that they were going to Hell (if you're an atheist or a different religion to christianity then this is basically the message). There'd be uproar. Also now we get the situation in England where children are locked in schools, and get a much smaller minimum wage than adults (no minimum wage until 16, that smaller than 18, which is smaller than 20). If children don't go to school they're treated as criminals. All in all, I don't think that governments care overmuch about children, they can't vote.



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