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The truth behind 9/11?

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Lebowsk1
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The truth behind 9/11?
PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

I just wondered what everyones views on 9/11 are.

Do you believe the mainstream version of events: that terrorist hijackers flew planes into the towers and pentagon, and that these impacts caused the buildings to collapse?

Or do you subscribe to the idea that the government was involved, and that explosive charges were used to bring down the towers?

I personally think the evidence clearly suggests that the planes' impact and subsequent fires could not have brought down the towers and that therefore explosives must have been placed there beforehand. WT7 building collapsed and that wasnt even hit by a plane...

Here's a good site about it: http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.htm


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Sureal
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

The Twin Towers were badly designed. I can't remember the specifics, but I think it had something to do with were the stairs were put.

Also, do you really believe that Al Quaeda (...being the brave and honourable freedom fighters they are...) would take credit for someone else attack?


Still, to be fair, I haven't looked at that link you put up (no time at the mo) so there may be something in there to push aside my arguments.


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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

Sureal wrote:
The Twin Towers were badly designed. I can't remember the specifics, but I think it had something to do with were the stairs were put.

The designer is on-record as saying that they were designed to take multiple hits from jetliners:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/141 104designedtotake.htm

Also a building in Madrid with a very similar design to the TT burned intensely for days and did not collapse:

http://www.infowars.com/articles/world/madrid_towerin g_inferno.htm

Remember: Building 7 collapsed and was not hit by a plane at all, and in fact the owner Larry Silverstein (who made a VERY big amount of money from the whole of 9/11) actually said on an interview during a PBS special that they made a decision to "pull" it.
Quote:
Also, do you really believe that Al Quaeda (...being the brave and honourable freedom fighters they are...) would take credit for someone else attack?


Al Qaeda and the FBI have worked together plenty in the past. http://www.prisonplanet.com/terrorist_worked_with_fbi .html And check out info on the first world trade center bombing some years ago.

This stuff is so important because if it happens again they must not be allowed to get away with it and use it to justify further atrocities and removal of constitutional rights in the name of "national security".


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Sureal
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

Then I stand corrected smile.

Hey - this just gives me one more reason to dislike Bush wink5.


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1984
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

You don't need to go looking for ridiculous conspiracy stories to hate Bush.

Personally I believe that the U.S. was caught out because they were complacent and arrogant, they ignored many specific warnings about a specific terrorist threat from various foreign security agencies, and the feeling in the security services was that the U.S. itself was too strong to be hit.

As for the Neo-Cons using the whole 9/11 thing to 'justify' their various wars and policies: no-one can deny that. Let's just hope that things change before the U.S. state runs out of non-nuclear countries to destroy, because Iraq and Afghanistan were a walk in the park compared to what North Korea, Iran (and possibly even China in the future) would be.


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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

1984 wrote:
You don't need to go looking for ridiculous conspiracy stories to hate Bush.

Nero burnt down Rome and blamed it on his opponents. Likewise with Hitler and the Reistag. This strategy is actually very popular with leaders who lack ethical scruples.
Quote:
Personally I believe that the U.S. was caught out because they were complacent and arrogant, they ignored many specific warnings about a specific terrorist threat from various foreign security agencies, and the feeling in the security services was that the U.S. itself was too strong to be hit.

None of that explains why Building 7 fell perfectly into its own footprint despite not being hit by a plane. Another building in the vicinity actually had bits of the south tower fall on it but still stayed up.

I think a lot of people focus on what may have happened at the pentagon, or how the air defence seemed to have been called off, but I think the no.1 issue should be the actual collapse of the towers. If you actually watch the footage you can see the charges going off just below the main area of collapse, and firefighters on the scene reporter secondary explosions and charges. The thing is it is not conspiracy nuts making the most noise about this: firefighters are trying to sue the government over it and the relatives of those who died are often on the side of the 'conspiracy theorists'.
Quote:
As for the Neo-Cons using the whole 9/11 thing to 'justify' their various wars and policies: no-one can deny that.


PNAC (Project for the New American Century) actually stated way before 9/11 that without a "new Pearl Harbour" their plans would take a very long time.

Post 9/11 Bush actually referred to the events as "our generations pearl harbour".[/quote]


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Bernard
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

{Sigh}

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SpEEd0
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

I saw a flash movie that states that the pentagon was not hit by a plane but a missile. It had alot of info and pictures to back it up, it shows a picture of the "plane" as its coming in to hit the pentagon. It was video footage of the impact but the plane can only be seen in 1 frame because it went so fast. It looked like something completely different than a plane. It then shows a picture of the side that got hit and shows no wreckage at all, just the damage to the pentagon. Then it shows other plane wrecks where bits of the plane are scattered all over. The "plane" also put a perfect hole through a few layers of the pentagon, something that no plane can do. A nearby building that had survailance caught the crash on tape but it was confinscated by the fbi shortly after and was never seen again.

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Sean
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

I've seen that too SpEEd0, and it is probably actually more credible than that FOX special of "Did we land on the moon?" Yeah, that show insulted my intelligence.

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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

This has to be one of the funniest comments I have heard. That we are nieve to think that terrorists flew into the World Trade Center towers. That's rich.



Last edited by downward~spiral on Tue 22 Mar, 2005; edited 1 time in total
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Hubbs
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

Watch your words Lebowsk1, you might be next on the list, your getting too close wink

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Carnun
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

I too thought the buildings fell a little too perfect and my suspicions were aroused as to what really happened... but then I thought not too much more about it.

I also recently saw a doco discrediting the conspiracy theories around 9/11 - but I didn't like there angle very much and I quickly realized that it was a doco with a specific agenda... that 9/11 happened as told to us by the media and the politicians...they were hitting hard against the Pentagon/missle theory.

Well, if the Pentagon was really hit by a plane... where is the wreckage? Just show me some footage of the plane coming into crash into that building and I will be OK... I was wrong. You would think for a big governmental building they would have had security cameras that would have recorded this? Every man and his dog caught a glimpse of a couple of planes crashing into the towers... but the pentagon?


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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

downward~spiral wrote:
This has to be one of the funniest comments I have heard. That we are nieve to think that terrorists flew into the World Trade Center towers. That's rich.


No, I agree that terrorists destroyed the WTC towers. All I'm saying is that some of the terrorists involved may be a lot closer to home than you think.

Re: Pentagon
Yeah, the official story is crazy. According to that the plane would have had to skim the tops of the cars travelling on the nearby road during approach, then clipped the grass by the Pentagon and enter the building in a physically impossible manner and, of course, there's no footage of the plane despite it hitting the freakin' PENTAGON...

Anyway I think this is an important issue because I fear that a similar 'terrorist' atrocity may occur soon in order to boost fear in the people and justify further military expansion into Iran. Alex Jones actually predicted 9/11 2 months before and on his show begged people to call the White House and say "If we are attacked we know YOU did it" Of course people didnt listen (or probably even see it) but hopefully they will be brought to rights next time.

Random 9/11 Truth Movement fact no.697: the supposed 'debunking' article in Popular Mechanics magazine was written and researched by Benjamin Chertoff, who just happens to be... the cousin of Secretary of the Department of Homeland Defence Michael Chertoff. See 'Nepotism'.


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Inch
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

I think it's pointless trying to work out if they used explosives for those of us whole aren't engineers. How are we s'posed to know who's telling the truth?

But you can work out if a conspiracy theory is just a bunch of lies or not. If we, as common lay people, can find one flaw in the conspirators theory then you can throw away their theory because the rest will also be lies.

Take the moon hoax thing for example. Anyone should be able to disprove some of the conspirators arguments and realise it's just a bunch of lies. No stars in the background, everyone knows there can't be. So why are the conspirators saying there should be? To fool unsuspecting people who don't research the claims.

Here's my conspiracy theory, The US government creates conspiracy theories and sells them to Fox. Then conspirators are labeled as crackpots. When some people really do uncover something big no-one will believe them.


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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005  Reply with quote

Quote:
I think it's pointless trying to work out if they used explosives for those of us whole aren't engineers. How are we s'posed to know who's telling the truth?


You can explore what professionals said about it at the time. I have read many reports of experts saying that the collapse appeared consistant with a demolition (excuse lack of citations, tired...)

I think really important truths are something accessible to all people, especially in this 'Information Age' that we find ourselves in. Research and an open mind can discover truth from falsity.

But yeah, I'm not really into the moon landings conspiracy theories. I currently believe that the landings did take place.

Quote:
Here's my conspiracy theory, The US government creates conspiracy theories and sells them to Fox. Then conspirators are labeled as crackpots. When some people really do uncover something big no-one will believe them.


Oh of course this kind of thing happens. You get "shills" who are insiders acting like outsiders, there's all kinds of double-double crossing going on in the world of power. I do think that once you get a handle on the situation it is possible to see through that kind of thing by basically asking "who stands to benefit?"


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