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Posts: 1578
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Last Visit: 23 Apr 2008
Location: London Age: 15 LDs: about 9
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| HYPOTHESIS: Lucid dreaming and hypnosis |
 Posted: Fri 05 Mar, 2004 |
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My hypothesis is that your ability to lucid dream is related to the difficulty in hypnotising you. In other words, somebody who can lucid dream naturally would be hard to hypnotise, while somebody who fails to notice their RCs are working in a dream is easy to hypnotise.
This was inspired by the close reading of 395's topic in Lucidity Intro and a small paragraph or so from The Origin of Dreams: How and why we evolved to dream by Joseph Griffin. I quote:
| Quote: |
| Trance logic has long been recognised as an important characteristic of the hypnotic state... example of a subject told to close the window in a room that is uncomfortably warm and who will do so with the explanation that the room is cold or draughty. Trance logic is regarded by some investigators to be one sure sign of the presence of hypnosis. Trance logic can also occur in dreams... |
Somebody hypnotized will always have a rational explanation of what they're doing, while actually they are under the influence of hypnosis. A hypnotist once told somebody to fill one of their shoes with an alcoholic drink at a very formal party... they had an explanation!
As far as I can tell, only three methods are used by the brain to rationalise something after or during being hypnotised: proper logic (which I haven't heard of after being hypnotised - if it can be logically shown as a good option, why would they need being hypnotised?), hallucination and logical fallacies. Of course, hallucination doesn't really occur in dreams...
Now I'll omit the example he gave as it is too long, and take one from the forums instead, a logical fallacy:
| Sage Goddess wrote: |
Recently, I dreamed I was sitting in this big auditorium waiting for some sort of show to begin, and Mother Theresa was sitting next to me.
I remember in my dream questioning why she was there. I disctinctly remember the dream-me thinking, Isn't she dead? But then I concluded that she was there so she must be alive... never mind the fact that I've never had the occasion to hang out with Mother Theresa. Obvious dream sign missed completely! |
395 said, "why is it so difficult?" The immediate answer in my head was, "because we are under the influence of dream logic", and then the link was made  .
According to the hypothesis, people who have high lucid dreams naturally cannot be hypnotised, people who have low lucid dreams naturally are hard to hypnotise, then people who have small troubles doing RCs in dreams (like having to double-check), people who accept their RCs immediately, people who ask their DCs for explanation of their extra finger and accept the stupid answer, then people who miss flashing signs saying "You Are Dreaming!!!"...
...something along those lines, anyway.
I would love to collect information to support or not support this hypothesis. If anybody here has information about how much they lucid dream naturally (or how much trouble they have accepting RCs and how much trouble they have recognising dreamsigns) as well as information about the success of any hypnotist trying themselves on them... please post!
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35
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Posts: 1565
Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Last Visit: 12 Oct 2012
Location: Finland, my bed LDing
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| Posted: Fri 05 Mar, 2004 |
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I have trouble recognicing my dreamsigns. But my RC's have never failed  , so far. Lately I haven't even bothered to do a RC in my LD's, I just seem to know that I'm dreaming. I haven't been hypnotised so I don't know if I can be or not. Sometimes I get lucid if something strange happens in my dreams but not often.
I would tend to agree with you about hypnosis affecting ones ability to LD. I would have thought that it was the other way around. Someone who is easy to hypnotise would also be more likely to LD since they can alter their brainwave patterns much faster. But I might be wrong.
Hope I was helpful.
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Posts: 144
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Last Visit: 28 Mar 2007
Location: Portugal, Lisboa, Bedroom
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| Posted: Fri 05 Mar, 2004 |
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You could prove that theory by aking those who rarely have LD's to try self hipnosys, and then ask the results...
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39 |
Posts: 2103
Joined: 16 May 2002
Last Visit: 23 May 2006
Location: Bedroom Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat 06 Mar, 2004 |
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Hmmm...i would be the exception then.Im not really good in lucid dreaming but at the same time i find impossibile to make autohipnosis work.Actually thats the thing i blame my lack of lds on-not enough concentration.Im yet to try proper hypnosis but i have attended to few public ones and it never seem working on me either.
hmm,dont know.
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Posts: 2991
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Last Visit: 03 Apr 2013
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat 06 Mar, 2004 |
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I am not so sure about your theory. I am a lucid dreamer and also use self hypnosis. In fact I use self-hypnosis as part of my induction technique. You will also find many people on this forum who are skilled in LD ‘ing and also hypnosis or deep meditation. I think it is just the opposite. Being skilled in hypnosis or meditation actually aids in LD ing. I believe that Stephen Laberge did a study with people who never had a LD before and used hypnosis with positive results. It is in EWLD. I have not read that section in a while but, I will read it and post what it said later.
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395Novice dreamer
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Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Last Visit: 17 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun 07 Mar, 2004 |
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...well, I'm glad I could help!
Although I fear being hypnotized and therefore have never submitted to it.
Self-hypnosis is something I have been reading about, though...
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Posts: 1305
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Last Visit: 23 Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sun 07 Mar, 2004 |
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I very rarely have LDs and I have never, ever, ever succeeded with hypnosis. Hard head here.
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Posts: 1578
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Last Visit: 23 Apr 2008
Location: London Age: 15 LDs: about 9
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| Posted: Sun 07 Mar, 2004 |
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I didn't mean using hypnosis to induce lucid dreams. I meant once you have some inkling you might be dreaming within the dream, what happens?
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Posts: 410
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Last Visit: 25 Jul 2006
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun 07 Mar, 2004 |
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That's a really interesting hypothesis, actually. I'm afraid that I, like 395, have a seemingly irrational fear of hypnosis and so I wouldn't want to try it. And I have about 1 LD a month - although I'm sure I could have a lot more if I tried.
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Posts: 1305
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Last Visit: 23 Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Mon 08 Mar, 2004 |
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You're missing the point! I never have LDs and I cannot be hypnotized so I don't fit the description...
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pavDream Weaver
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Posts: 348
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Last Visit: 18 Sep 2010
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Mon 08 Mar, 2004 |
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I heard that people easy to hypnotize have ability to concentrate very hard on something and they don't easily get distracted. I'm not sure how it is related to questioning reality in dreams...
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39 |
Posts: 2103
Joined: 16 May 2002
Last Visit: 23 May 2006
Location: Bedroom Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon 08 Mar, 2004 |
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After reading all above i guess theory goes opposite.People who have the ease with lds usually are good in concentration and are easy targets to hipnotise,either by someone or by themselves.Thats what i thought avtually.hmmm..
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Posts: 1578
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Last Visit: 23 Apr 2008
Location: London Age: 15 LDs: about 9
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| Posted: Tue 09 Mar, 2004 |
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| Jack wrote: |
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After reading all above i guess theory goes opposite.People who have the ease with lds usually are good in concentration and are easy targets to hipnotise,either by someone or by themselves.Thats what i thought avtually.hmmm.. |
Two problems:
1) Not a large enough sample.
2) This doesn't have a justification.
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39 |
Posts: 2103
Joined: 16 May 2002
Last Visit: 23 May 2006
Location: Bedroom Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue 09 Mar, 2004 |
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Hehe you right R3mot.I was rather pointing direction than suggesting any theory at all:)
take care:)
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Posts: 1305
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Last Visit: 23 Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 |
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Oh come on are you gonna take that from a 14 year old (supposedly virgin) when you're the sex god? Well I guess the only way to end this battle is to take a big fat survey of the site... right? But let's add another sample:
DM7>Can easily go into hypnosis at will>Can easily lucid dream at will
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