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WILD: do you really have sleep paralysis?

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Basilus West
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WILD: do you really have sleep paralysis?
PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

I've read plenty of times on this forum that people practicing WILD reached a sleep paralysis state.

I've had recently a WILD experience in which I wasn't very far from a lucid dream. It was after a WBTB. I felt that my body was very numb, and it could be what is said here to be sleep paralysis. But it wasn't sleep paralysis at all. Indeed, I could move, but it required a very great mental effort. It was like I had been hypnotized, and I didn't want to move. Then I did this effort, I moved my fingers first, then I decided to move and I had no problem to do this.

As far I understand, in sleep paralysis (the real sleep trouble), people cannot move, because something in the brain is disconnected during REM sleep. I never experienced sleep paralysis episodes, but I think it's very different from what I experienced during my WILD attempt: as I said, what I experienced is probably a deep relaxation state, similar to the state which can be provoked by hypnosis.

Thus I'm wondering if some people really experience sleep paralysis during WILD. And if they experience it, are they naturally subject to sleep paralysis episodes?


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adg12012
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

i've never had sleep paralysis either
i've only gotten to the point where my arms and legs go numb and i feel like im floating...but it can move whenever i want

im guessing this is the beginning of sleep paralysis


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Sin City Dreamer
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

I have had LD's by the hundreds, but have never had a wild or a SP experiance. My brother has had about 100 LD's and had SP about 10 times. So it think it has alot to do with the person. I used to not beleave him when he said he couldnt move, but now after reading the books and the forum, I understand it.

My half brother his mother and his grand mother all have SP, and used to talk about how the house was haunted, and ghost would freeze them sometimes during sleep. Then stand right next to them just out of site, but they couldnt move there eyes either, so they couldnt look. I also used to think they where crazy back then, but now I beleave them.

SP has just never happened to me.


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stranger
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

usually you wouldnt get SP during WILD because your physical body has only just gone to sleep... and this is not the point where the body is paralysed. It occurs a little later after (can't remember how long), during certain periods of sleep.

If you become awake, or stay awake, later on during the physical body's sleep stage, you might feel the sleep paralysis.

If you wake up DURING sleep, (in your mind), its likely you will get SP


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Jacques
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

Waking up from nightmares is the perfect time to feel the effects of SP, especially if you will yourself to wake up during the dream - both mind and body are not expecting to wake up from their current state of deep sleep, so when you do, you're still stuck!

This is why I used to hate nightmares, as they would also be accompanied by the real-world fear of momentarily not being able to move. Though now, after my research and quest to LD, instead of making myself wake up during a nightmare, I'll instead become lucid. And if I do wake up, I'll know why I can't move.

I haven't had a nightmare in about a year...


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Basilus West
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

stranger wrote:
usually you wouldnt get SP during WILD because your physical body has only just gone to sleep...

Jacques wrote:
Waking up from nightmares is the perfect time to feel the effects of SP.

I completely agree with you, stranger and Jacques. I've had numerous cases of people who tried and wake up from nightmares and felt SP effects. That's quite normal, since if you have a nightmare, you're in REM sleep then your body is paralysed.

Sin City Dreamer wrote:
My brother has had about 100 LD's and had SP about 10 times. [...] My half brother his mother and his grand mother all have SP, and used to talk about how the house was haunted, and ghost would freeze them sometimes during sleep.

Many studies have shown that sleep paralysis may run in families. When I say SP, I speak about the sleep trouble. SP seems to be common in your family. Of course, people who have the sleep paralysis trouble can experience it during WILD, or use it in order to have LD's. A friend of mine is in this case, but he experienced SP before he knew anything about LD'ing. So that we cannot conclude to the fact that someone who is not subject to the sleep paralysis trouble may experience a true paralysis while WILD'ing.


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Xetrov
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PostPosted: Fri 09 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

Basilus SP comes in gradations. It is connected to neurotransmitters that show during sleep, so when you WILD there is less of these and less SP (sleep isnt that deep yet, less neurotransmitters), thus easier to will yourself to move.

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popov
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we have two kind of paralysis
PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

"WILD paralysis" is usually not REM paralysis. A typical WILD tech put your brain first into NREM sleep. During separation, which you'd agree part of a typical WILD, you're not paralysed in the sense of real paralyis. REM and REM paralysis will be switched on while the first vision of your bedroom appear, before, while or after separation. Then a lucid dream begins.

From this point on OBE is not much really different from LD, at least not in physiological terms. What makes the difference is the quality of the initial sensory input (bedroom), and the fate of the state stabilizing sensory feedback. When intent is not clear beliefs play the main role here.

In REM sleep paralysis a group of neurons in the brainstem actively inhibits voluntary movements by hyperpolarizing spinal motoneurons. On the other hand, NREM-paralysis is caused by extreme muscle relaxation, visualization or both.

These activities gradually close the "sensory gate," a function of the thalamus. The "sensory gate" regulates the flow of sensory information toward the cortex. Every sensory information (except olfactory) have to pass through this gate before become conscious sensation "in the cortex."

The mechanism that closes the sensory gate is pretty inseparabile from sleep. Deepening sleep in general, whether conscious or not, entails the gradual closure of the sensory gate.

In the second stage of NREM sleep, usually preceeded by lost of consciousness, sleep oscillations of the stronger kind, called "sleep spindles" shut the gate. Depending on the technique you have used various degree of attention remains on the body representing a particular filter mode of the sensory gate.

As a result in S2 you're in "mild NREM paralysis," and by S3 you enter "total NREM paralyisis." Neither occur with REM paralysis by default. REM sleep often starts in S2 but could superimpose onto other sleep stages too, even wakefulness. Except very rare cases REM comes with its own, active paralysis you're all familiar with.

In S2 the body feels very slow, faint and spaceous. Even while you couldn't move your physical body you often think you're able to. The border is quite messy anyway, a couple of times I've even finished a turn in my dream body that has started in the physical. At teh beginning it's so easy to confuse the premature dream body with the physical thinking that you're actually turning and tossing in bed. It causes a lot of FAs.

Of course, there are hypnagogic WILDs too. When REM latency is less than 15 minutes, we call the REM period as "sleep onset REM period" (SOREM-P). It happens when REM-pressure is greater than the preference for NREM sleep.

So we have two type of WILD, one has its own paralysisis and begins in S2 by the subjective feeling of separation and an other which occurs by REM-intrusion.


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Jaxal
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PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

Hi

I would love to experiance SP. I have never experianced it. Maybe becoz my main method is WILD.


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Tomas
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PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

It varies alot. If i try to WILD right after i have woken up from sleep, then i get SP more often than not.

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Basilus West
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PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

Popov, thank you for providing these explanations. smile

Tomas, how do you feel during this SP? What are your sensations? Do you think you could move if you really wanted to?


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Tomas
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

Quote:
Tomas, how do you feel during this SP? What are your sensations? Do you think you could move if you really wanted to?

Hard to explain exactly what i feel, but i will try as good as i can.

First i get this heavy feeling in my body, which nearly feels like i sink a bit into my bed. Then i will get this strongly tingling feeling, which kinda feels like mild current"that i assume is what people call vibrations" going through your body, with the exception of lack of pain. I also in most cases hear a sound that sounds very much like wind blowing in your ears.

I sometimes also get a very vivid sensation of spinning or falling, but those feelings does not come in very beginning stage of my SP.

The only part of my body that i can willingly move, is the eyes.
I can however break out of SP, by concentrating all my strength on just moving for example my hand.
Once my hand starts moving, then the rest of my body will follow and i will now be fully awake.


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bzteam
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Nov, 2005  Reply with quote

I get sleep paralysis frequently, and it only started once I started practising lucid dreaming. I've been able to launch WILDs from it maybe 4 succesful times. Other times I just feel floating sensations or vibrations

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Petter
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005  Reply with quote

adg12012 wrote:
i've never had sleep paralysis either
i've only gotten to the point where my arms and legs go numb and i feel like im floating...but it can move whenever i want

im guessing this is the beginning of sleep paralysis


Thats exactly how I feel !

And if I move an arm goes every arm and leg normal again


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JaRoD
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005  Reply with quote

For me it all depends on what I focus on when I try to WILD. If I focus on what my body feels like I usually get SP but if I focus on HI or something else I don't notice the SP at all. I haven't had any SP before finding out about LDing. But I have my suspicions that my SP is only dream SP alot of the time.

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