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First-cause argument

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Draginvry
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

burning_idle wrote:
Yeah, it also still doesn't explain the first cause without the use of a time loop style paradox, and that makes my head hurt.


There is no time loop. He said that God was atemporal. Thus God wasn't the "first" cause. Rather, God was always the cause. Think of it less as a loop, and more of a recurring phenomenon. One in which there is no beginning, because God references Himself, rather than time. In fact, it's the opposite. God created time. Time references God, rather than vice-versa.


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Bruno
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

Draginvry wrote:
There is no time loop. He said that God was atemporal. Thus God wasn't the "first" cause. Rather, God was always the cause.

Yet another model: dimensions. Since we can't think of higher dimensions easily, lets do the opposite and just imagine everything we know — all the universe, in all moments, all of time and space — condensated into a sphere. Now think of god as something outside of that sphere: out of space, out of time, and in a sense, beyond those.

But you want a designer god, don't you? Well, what about symbiotic panentheism? God is an entity which grows as we grow. We are part of god, and god depends on us. In that sense, god is some sort of living thing, which feeds on the permanence of our universe, a living creature which is alive because they can die — and will effectively die if this universe collapses. God an the universe in a quasi-identity, like body and soul form an individual. And in that sense, we are the cause of god, and god is the cause of us — a cause external to us, and beyond our existence and comprehension.

No complicated logics. Just the right positioning of words wink5


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Draginvry
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

I see God as creation, not creator. That is, I don't believe God is some kind of actor sculpting the universe. Rather, God is the process of sculpting, the very act of creating itself.

In other words, God didn't create a work of art. He is art. He is the substance of what makes art, art. God is the very act of living, of doing, of creating, of destroying, of protecting, the very essence of action. That is the first cause, and that is what gives me purpose. I don't act to please God. I act because the action is God.

Of course, I could be a complete nutcase. But I'm a nutcase with a purpose. And a smiley wiske


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