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foo fighter
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ZMA
PostPosted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006  Reply with quote

Okay, I've given up on DMAE for the moment (I was way too jittery & wired on it) so now I've decided on trying a different set of initials! wink

Has anyone heard of ZMA? It's a body building supplement containing only Vitamin B6, Magnesium and Zinc. It's supposed to be taken at night and can theoretically help increase testosterone levels (i.e. that's ZMA's original advertised purpose), through the synergistic (sp?) action of the B6, Zinc & Magnesium.

Anyway a very common side effect of taking ZMA appears to be deeper sleep (poss. increased REM sleep) & vivid & memorable dreams (which is why I found out about it in the 1st place, searching Google).

These side effects get mentioned a lot on body building forums (see for instance http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459250&pageNo =1 for one example, or just Google +zma +dreams).

I've ordered some on ebay so I'm going to give it a go (not as some sort of magic 'Lucid Dreaming Pill', but to hopefully help with my dream recall & maybe also my sleeping patterns/ general insomnia).

Anyway the actual active ingredients of ZMA are usually given something like as follows:

Per 3 capsules (daily amount)
Zinc Monomethionine Aspartate – 30mg
Magnesium Aspartate – 450mg
Vitamin B-6 – 11mg


... obviously, I guess you could easily buy all 3 main ingredients seperately, but it's the Aspartate form of the Zinc & Mag. that are important here I think, 'Aspartate' meaning that they're both much more bioavailable than the usual supplemented forms of the 2, or something.....]


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krakatoa
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PostPosted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006  Reply with quote

A good buddy of mine who was at least last year into building mucle said he Ate a lot of B6 and said he got really weird dreams. The reason he said they were weird was ofcourse because he wouldn't remember those dreams otherwise, is my guess. I may have to ask about all this now.

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foo fighter
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

krakatoa wrote:
A good buddy of mine who was at least last year into building mucle said he Ate a lot of B6 and said he got really weird dreams. The reason he said they were weird was ofcourse because he wouldn't remember those dreams otherwise, is my guess. I may have to ask about all this now.

Magnesium also apparently helps to make the B6 more available (so your body can use it more effectively), as well as helping in the production of serotonin ... not so sure about the Zinc, but anyway.

There's a really good discussion about using ZMA for OBE's and lucid dreaming here too: http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/index.php/topic  ,4736.0.html (not a body building forum this time!)

I took my first ZMA dose (just one capsule, you can take up to 3) last night .. unfortunately I then stayed up til about 3:30 on the computer (so kinda messed up the experiment) but without question DID have much longer, more detailed dreams this morning (much longer & more detailed than I can usually remember anyway), plus a weird feeling I can't define last night ~ sleepy/ calm/ spaced I can't really define, but I felt like something was 'going on' .. could have been placebo (or tiredness!) but anyway, I'm looking forward to trying this again tonight.


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krakatoa
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

Regarding my friend.. he did not eat ZMA. But still.. it seems like cool stuff. Nice link too.

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7Regrets
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

Can you find ZMA at any drugstores like Walgreens or Walmart? I'm experimenting Vitamins B (especially B-6) mixing with other stuff.

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foo fighter
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

7Regrets wrote:
Can you find ZMA at any drugstores like Walgreens or Walmart? I'm experimenting Vitamins B (especially B-6) mixing with other stuff.

Not entirely sure eh (I live in the Uk & bought mine here on ebay).

I did a quick Google search & I think you can buy the ingredients separately at the places you mentioned (Walgreens will have them in the sort of quantities you need, atleast according to http://www.discussfitness.com/forums/f7/zma-making-my -own-what-amounts-too-high-22069.html).

Buying ZMA means you get the Zinc & Magnesium in the most available forms (Aspartate, which your body easily uses), but other forms should still work anyway.

The thing to remember is to take the B6, Zinc & magnesium at the same time, and on their own … leave atleast 1 hour either side of taking them before you eat/ take anything else, and especially avoid taking Calcium at the same time (this will stop the effect of the Zinc).

Actually, I just found this on wikipedia, which explains about this:

Quote:
The proportion of ingredients generally used in products is 20-30 mg Zinc, 400-500 mg Magnesium and ~10mg B6. This supplement should never be taken with calcium, as calcium blocks the absorption of zinc. Any ZMA supplement that has calcium in it should be avoided. ZMA should also be taken before bed on an empty stomach (2 hours after eating your last meal and at least 30 minutes prior to any other supplements).

(Can't post the url because it's got brackets in it so this site isn't recognising it, just search for +zma +wikipedia & you should be able to find it.)

Actually, if you buy the ingredients seperately you'll be able to adjust the amounts to what suits you & experiment (ZMA comes in capsules full of powder, kinda messy & a hassle if you decide you want to split them for some reason, at least it would be for me.. ^^ ).


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Stiffy
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

I'm getting this, it will be good for my wrestling practices and give me some benefits in the dream world! 8D

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Stiffy
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

Got my ZMA today from GNC, it has these ingredients:

Riboflavin (Vitamin b-2) 6mg 353%dv
Vitamin B-6 6mg 300%dv
Folic Acid 300mcg 75%dv
Vitamin B-12 3mcg 50%dv
Magnesium 60mg 15%dv
Zinc 30mg 200%dv
Copper 2mg 100%dv

Hops Flower Extract 120mg
Valerian Root Extract 500mg

Other ingredients: Cellulose, Calcium Carbonate, Vegetable Acetoglycerides


I will post any results here.


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Stiffy
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

I took two pills as recomended, on an empty stomache before I went to bed with water. After 5 minutes of trying to go to sleep, I had to vomit. grrr

So the effects of the ZMA didn't work because I threw the pills up in the toilet.

I hope that doesn't happen anymore.

First night- failure.


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freedom88
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

7Regrets wrote:
Can you find ZMA at any drugstores like Walgreens or Walmart? I'm experimenting Vitamins B (especially B-6) mixing with other stuff.


In the UK you can find it quite easily at Holland and Barret ... just thought I'd mention that ...quite expensive though... eh


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Stiffy
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

freedom88 wrote:
7Regrets wrote:
Can you find ZMA at any drugstores like Walgreens or Walmart? I'm experimenting Vitamins B (especially B-6) mixing with other stuff.


In the UK you can find it quite easily at Holland and Barret ... just thought I'd mention that ...quite expensive though... eh


My little jar with 60 pills only cost $12, I think its a pretty decent deal.


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Stiffy
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

2nd night trying ZMA

Took two pills before I went to bed, didn't vomit this time! grin

I didn't notice anything in particular that was different. I'll keep trying.


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Basilus West
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

Stiffy wrote:
I took two pills as recomended, on an empty stomache before I went to bed with water. After 5 minutes of trying to go to sleep, I had to vomit. grrr

Is this a common side-effect with ZMA? eh


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foo fighter
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

Stiffy,

ZMA normally only contains three ingredients ~ Zinc, Magnesium & B6 ~ the GNC version you've bought looks interesting, but will work in a slightly (maybe more than slightly?) different way, since it doesn't include so much Magnesium but does includes Valerian.

The vomiting/ sickness you had was probably a reaction to the Valerian, or maybe to a combination of the Valerian plus other ingredients.

Try taking it for a few days (maybe, 4 or 5 days) and then take a break ~ normal ZMA is fine to take over a long period of time, but I'd be cautious about taking Valerian (especially 1g ~ i.e. 2 caps) every day to be honest.

Also, don't forget it's important to eat something beforehand (just leave a couple of hours after eating before you take the ZMA). If you're taking supps' (ANY supplement) on a completely empty stomach, you're much more likely to get side effects or feel sick (~ from experience... )

Anyway, let us know how you get on! siiw

[I'm taking 2 caps of ZMA (equals 300mg Magnesium, 20mg Zinc, 8mg B6) 5 days a week .. it's definitely having an effect, i.e. I'm actually writing stuff in my DJ now, but it's hard to say how much because my sleep patterns are still messed up (I think I might have to stay awake for 36 hours & then go to bed completely exhausted at a 'normal' time, if all else fails....... eh )


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foo fighter
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Aug, 2006  Reply with quote

Basilus West wrote:
Stiffy wrote:
I took two pills as recomended, on an empty stomache before I went to bed with water. After 5 minutes of trying to go to sleep, I had to vomit. grrr

Is this a common side-effect with ZMA? eh

Well, the only negative side effect I've experienced is slight headache, after I'd taken 3 capsules (the max dose) for a few days.

Apparently, ZMA can cause headaches b/c Magnesium increases your blood flow (taken in large amounts), so I just reduced the dose to 2 caps & it's fine.

I actually look forward to taking the ZMA b/c the effect feels very natural, kinda calming, and also because (apart from the dreams) I know it's doing me good ~ Zinc & Magnesium are important minerals most people tend to be deficient in, and B6 (in small amounts) is also an important vitamin too I think?

Anyway I haven't experienced any sickness from taking it.


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