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Ethics in lucid dreaming

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Kirbzy
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Ethics in lucid dreaming
PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

I thought it would be interesting to discuss the types of ethics we personally hold in our lucid dreams. Would there be anyone out there who puts no boundaries whatsoever to things they do in their LDs, or do people set themselves personal guidelines to follow? For example for me:

- I would never kill someone unless it was self defense
- I would never rape someone or engage in taboo sex
- I would never torture animals
- If I ever see my late mother, I would always tell her that I love and miss her

I realise that a lot of these things are completely harmless in dreams, well... because they are only dreams, but does anyone hold themselves in high moral regard even within lucid dreams to not do things they find unethical?


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Cyrus
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

Good topic! wink

I personally don't want to harm (included killing, raping, etc what was mentioned in first post) any of my DC-s, unless it's a fun LD where i fight monsters using some superpowers like in PC games

It's not as much that i don't recognize my DC-s to be pure imaginations of my dreaming mind, but instead of mindlessly harming them, i rather prefer to have some meaningful conversation with them. Even in dreams when i became lucid because some DC-s were attacking me, i didn't started to "kill them off", but asked from them why are they attacking me. Surprisingly, they turned out pretty co-operative ^^



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Abren
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

Hell with Ethics, Have fun,
Anarchy Rocks!
I would never rape,
But I'll kill if i want to. In LDing of course.


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krakatoa
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

What is ethics for in real life? Think about it! Not all of the rules make sense, but most of them are about not causing harm or suffering to others. There are rules in some contexts that forbid things that don't hurt others as well, but we usually find those rule crazy! Unless we are indoctrinated.

So, in dreams, who can we hurt? Is there any USE for ethics? Every rule is a limitation. you may accept that limitation, but do you think about its purpose? Is there any point to the rules? What is the benefit of a rule? Think about it! If you decide in a world where you CAN do anything you want, and nobody will stop you, to follow some rules, are you not still only following the rules you WANT to follow? Are you not in fact doing anything you want, and only shying away from doing what you DO NOT want to do?

So what is the purpose of the rules? If there were no rules, would you do it? Ofcourse you wouldn't, you don't want to. So maybe later on, you change tour mind, you realize that you want to break the rules. Who's gonna stop ya? Maybe you will yourself, but that's just your conscience talking. You can change the rules any time you want to. What's more, if you break a rule there's no harm done. Nobody got hurt.

So, in my opinion, making rules to follow in lucid dreams is only to create a false sense of righteousness, because you will only make the rules you want to follow and will in fact do anything you want.


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Kaleidoscope
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

For some of us, LD's are few and far between.
I don't want to be tied down by "ethics" in these few short instances.

The main reason I try to LD is because I know there are no limitations. It can be my own world, a world with no ethics. I'm not tied down by any rules. If I wanna destroy things, have sex, and do whatever I want, then I can. No limitations.
That is, if I can exert control...


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PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

I would never harm a DC
its not my nature only in a 300 type war or self defense but i don't find it amusing killing off innocent imaginary characters


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Scarecrow
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

Uhh am i the only one who thinks that ld's are a chance to act beyond the ethics of society.

It gives you a chance to do things you normally wouldn't do, without consequence.

Not that i have done anything like rape, torture, murder, or anything like that, i'm just saying.



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BlueAndWhite
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

You shouldnt have ethics in an LD, its the one time to set yourself free and go wild.
Of course i have never raped or whatever in an LD xD

But think about it, say you really wanted to see what it would be like to...slit your wrists for example.. do it in an LD. Want to see what its like to kill someone, throw a puppy off a building? Do it in an LD. It can stop alot of people from doing things in real life, where so many things are unethical.

^.^


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underscore
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

I'll do pretty much whatever seems like an awesome idea, at the time. That being said, ingrained habits and moral principles might sneak into my LDs, if only subconsciously. Sooo...

-I'd never rape a DC. Call me a prude, but if I were to have any sort of sexual dream I'd most likely stick to my girlfriend.
-Killing would be ok, but no torture... that's a bit messed up.
-On that, I would NOT search for a specific person, just to kill them. I've got my enemies, but dwelling on it is bad. (if I meet their DC along the way, though... well, bonus!)
-I'd never mess with anything sacreligious or satanic... seems like it'd bring on lucid nightmares overspannen .

...that's about it. I'm pretty big on freedom in LDs, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to adhere to my rules.


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Lucidity_Master
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

Quote:
Would there be anyone out there who puts no boundaries whatsoever to things they do in their LDs, or do people set themselves personal guidelines to follow? For example for me:

- I would never kill someone unless it was self defense
- I would never rape someone or engage in taboo sex
- I would never torture animals
- If I ever see my late mother, I would always tell her that I love and miss her


I can't say no boundaries, but very limited ones. Although I have killed people and perhaps some other evil things it isn't habit or common. I guess you could say I'm not against anything in dreams but I don't make a habit or commanality of doing immoral things as I feel this could "corrupt" you or fool you into "believing/doing" unrealistic things.

It's interesting that you included rape because you can always make the DC want to have sex with you, it would never have to come to rape - unless you consider controlling "free will" to be rape.

Quote:
So, in dreams, who can we hurt? Is there any USE for ethics?


On a one dream basis - NO. But I think, as mentioned above, that consistently doing evil/unethical/immoral things can lead to more sinister thinking or unrealistic expectations in RL.


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TwilightDreamer
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

I don't think you should define ethics for yourself in a lucid dream - but instead use common sense, or your consciousness. If it tells you not to kill someone, than don't do it. If it tells you to say hello to someone, than do it.

Just be sure you are not restraining yourself too much (It can make you lose and will to LD, which is never pretty)


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BlueAndWhite
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

I think theres two types of ethics - the ones that are guilty pleasures, for example sleeping with your wifes sister in an LD, or murder ETC.
But then theres the things that your sub-concious wouldnt even think of doing, therefore of course your restricting yourself, just not... intentionally ^^


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MovieMe
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

My ethic guidelines are... Well is;
- If it does not amuse you, don't waste your time doing it.

Your lucid dream is your "funscape" - Do what you please wink5
This goes to ME, because I feel that I can separate dreams from reality. I know that what goes on in my lucid dreams only happens because I know it's a dream.


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BlueAndWhite
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

I agree MovieMe.
Thats a good philosophy wink5

However some people may not have that borderline between 'its just a dream' and reality. which is a scary thought. But for most people that are at grasp with reality.. this would make sense. (your rule..)

siiw


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Sabre
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008  Reply with quote

The problem is, how do we know the characters in are dreams have no consciousness? We cannot know for sure. Through our perception in our dreams, they act as if they do have somewhat a will of their own. Science does not know what exactly makes up someone having a will; it could have little to do with cells. One goal society has is to create true artificial intelligence with real consciousness and emotions. I'm not saying we're interacting with other humans, but what if these fictional dream characters are not as fictional as we think they are? After all, they appear real and act in a realistic manner. Even if they are all our heads, are they truly not conscious of their experiences?

At least, this is a possible theory I have. I do not believe it, but I leave it in the back of my mind. As I am a human, I indulge in humanly desires with no regards to ethics sometimes, but for the most part I try to keep up my ethics, as otherwise I feel repercussions through my conscience.

I try, however, to keep my dream ethics as far away from society's as I can. Of course, as we are all cultivated by society, they will largely overlap, but I try to use psychological logic to back up and dismiss possible dream ethics.


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