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WilliamThyer
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WILD Problems
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

I've been attempting lucid dreaming for roughly 2 years on and off. I've been met with moderate success; one very short semi-lucid dream. It's frustrating because I've told numerous other people about lucid dreaming and I've watched many of them quickly get the hang of it and reach lucidity in a few weeks of little effort.

Anyway, I did MILD with WBTB for most of the 2 years and now I've switched over to WILD. I've attempted it every night with WBTB for 2 weeks. I lay there and begin the 61-point relaxation method by Stephen LaBerge, and then begin counting my breathes and laying still. I usually lay there for roughly 15 minutes without reaching anything special. No SP, HI, or anything. Then, I get this overwhelming urge to move my knees or elbows. I can usually ignore it for about 30 seconds, and then it just gets too powerful and I stretch them out or something.

I've heard about the roll over syndrome, where your brain tests the body to see if it is asleep by giving it an urge to roll over, and I always figured I could just ignore it if it meant lucid dreaming, but this is awful. My question is, could this be my body's version of the roll over? And if so, is there any way to overcome it's urges?

Thanks to anyone who thinks they can help.


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Rhewin
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

Yes, the feeling of needing to move your legs or arms is a form of the roll over signal. As uncomfortable as it is, if you are trying to hit SP you will need to ignore it. Eventually it will die away, but it can get very difficult to ignore. Some techniques such as Stop Drop and Roll help this, but it still goes to willpower. The only advice I can give is to find a comfortable position and hang on for deer life.

Now, if simply can't continue (and this will happen some times), find another comfortable position and try to hold it. It will never feel quite right due to the signals, but if you stick with it you will greatly raise your chances of SP.

Now, how long do you get out of bed for WBTB? For some people staying up too long can really mess up their attempt because they've become too awake. IF you try for shorter times, this can help a lot with roll over, and if you get it just right you may be able to skip the SP part all together.



Current LD goal(s): Defeat Xander in our lucid duel!
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WilliamThyer
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

Just the fact that you, the acclaimed Rhewin, thinks that it is the roll over signal makes me endlessly ecstatic, because I have nearly gotten to the point where I'm afraid I can't LD at all! But, if that [i]is in fact the roll over, that means I'm getting closer!

And to answer your question about my WBTB length; I've experimented with it a bit and have discovered that I have a lot of trouble even attempting WILD if I stay up for longer than 5 minutes. I just won't be able to fall asleep. So, I kept staying up for a shorter and shorter time until now, I just write a bit in my DJ with a flashlight and then start the 61-point relaxation. I stay up for roughly 3-5 minutes.


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Rhewin
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

Acclaimed? When on Earth did that happen tounge2?

Yeah, this definitely sounds like one of those things you'll just have to push through. You may also want to try adjusting the time you sleep before the WBTB if you haven't already. Good luck!

P.S. if you're not already you may want to work on being aware throughout the day. You know asking yourself where you are, how you got there, does it all make sense/look normal. Doing this regularly has helped me more than anything.



Current LD goal(s): Defeat Xander in our lucid duel!
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ZRVera
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

Mero wrote:
.... because I have nearly gotten to the point where I'm afraid I can't LD at all!


Just because you can't WILD doesn't mean you can't LD. wink5 I rarely try to WILD, and yet I'm decent at LDing. I've found my personal routine and "methods" quite fine without WILD. tounge2


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WilliamThyer
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

It's not that I don't think I can lucid dream just because I can't WILD, but the fact that I've tried MILD, WBTB, reality checks, dream journaling, and WILD with no success for two years straight. And I didn't do all of them at once, I just started WILD a few weeks ago and dropped MILD.

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ZRVera
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

My point is that if you think you're having a hard time LDing and that MILD, WBTB, and RCs aren't working, they aren't working because of that. Gotta keep up your confidence and let your SC know that it's possible and the problem is that it's not listening to you, not the techniques.

I won't dissuade you though, WILD might be for you, and it might not. It's all part of the process of discovering what's best for you. ^^


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mattias
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

Realising techniques aren't everything can do great things. Many people that have tried to LD for a long time with little results say they have tried everything. But that usually means all the techniques What I mean is, as Rhewin and ZRVera said, things like being more aware during the day can really help. Practicing meditation or even playing around with your MILD mantras can give you different results, and from those you can learn a lot about your dreaming and sleeping.

Now, about the roll over signal. I've been there many times. I'm one of those that gets such a strong signal that I can't ignore it at all. It becomes almost painful. But, one thing that I have noticed is as soon as I decide "ok, I can't take it anympore! nuu I need to move!" I roll over and fall asleep instantly. What I mean is, just because you can't resist the signal doesn't mean the WILD is totally lost! So, one thing you can try besides simply fighting it is, when you get the signal, gently roll over and relax, but focus like crazy In my experience at least, moving doesn't completely cancel the WILD. If I move just a little, sloooooowly, it's enough to get comfortable but still stay near the falling asleep zone.

Or maybe you can experiment a little. Try just to wiggle your toes next time and see what happens to the signal...

What I mean is nothing is written in stone. Who knows, there may be one crazy dude out there that is able to get the roll over signal, stand up and do 10 jumping jacks and get back into bed and WILD right away tounge2


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WilliamThyer
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

To ZRVera- Ah, that makes sense. I really do have a problem with self confidence when it comes to lucid dreaming. I'll try and work on it, thanks.

To mattias- Well, that might help a lot. I'll definitely try just accepting it tonight. I'm almost positive that unless I can reduce it like Rhewin said, then I won't be able to endure it. It gets so uncomfortable that I just want to scream or run around or something, but I can't move so I pretty screwed in that regard. I'll try changing the length of WBTB tonight, and if it doesn't work, then I'll just accept it and stay hyper-focused!


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Y4ZT
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

I think confidence is key, i like to use matras like "I will realize im dream" "I will lucid dream" and i try my best to make myself belive it. Also being aware durring the day is how i hear the most successfull LDers do it :D. I dont know if u do this but in the mornings when u are drifting in and out of sleep if u ever have a dream and conciously go back into it your realy close to LDing so if you are doing that or even have done that you can be sure that LDing isnt very far off for u smile


Current LD goal(s): Do the quest of the month, not fail at flying...agian....agian
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