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What my friend thinks on LD's...

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Mike716
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What my friend thinks on LD's...
PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

My friend says that lucid dreams are just normal dreams, and they aren't really being controlled by the person. He says that we just dream that we are having a lucid dream... and that we aren't really thinking, but we are just dreaming that we are thinking. Basically he means when we think we are in control of the dream, we are just dreaming of being in control. He also says that it is impossible to sleep when our concience is awake. I wish I could explain it better but it's hard to explain... It all makes sense to me, but is this really true?

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Neo
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

I understand what your saying. But two things.
A. You wouldn't really ever be able to tell. I mean, of course your dreaming, but is it all still just an illusion of control? I don't know how one would ever answer.
B. Why's matter? I mean even if its just a dream of control, your still in control. It may be a preplanned control, but its still control. I mean, people have enjoyed LDs before and even if they weren't really in control they stil had fun.


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Mike716
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

Neo wrote:
B. Why's matter? I mean even if its just a dream of control, your still in control. It may be a preplanned control, but its still control. I mean, people have enjoyed LDs before and even if they weren't really in control they stil had fun.


I was thinking the exact same thing actually, I told my friend that before posting the topic... I was just curious if what he was saying was true or not.


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milod789
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

LUCID dreaming is real. The scientific community as even accepted it as real. Of corse pointing this out to your friend would be pointless. Your friend is missing out on a great opportunity to learn from you and start to have LD ‘s of his own. People are often to quick to reject things they do not understand. I can remember when books about LD were found in the occult section of most book stores. Now I find LD books in self help, psychology, or dream sections of book stores in my area.

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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

two questions:

has your friennd ever had a lucid dream ???
have you ???

your friend seems to be making a lot of claims, none of which seem to be based on anything (that is, if you explained his argument accurately) but i'm all for entertaining theories, so let's take your friend's theory to its next logical step

who's to say that that life isn't itself a dream, where we just think we're living ??? can you be sure that i myself am not just a dream character in the dream that you call your life ??? am i real or do you just think that i'm real ???

the point i'm trying to make is that if we can't trust our perceptions in a lucid dream, if we can't trust that when we say "i'm dreaming" inside a dream that that perception itself may be a false one, then who's to say our perception has any worth at all if it can so easily be fooled ???

i've had dreams that i will call lucid--where i was conscious of the fact that i was dreaming. i've also had false lucid dreams that seem to be what your friend was talking about--where i was simply dreaming that i was lucid. i can tell the difference between the two. i used to not even think FLDs existed until i had one

for all i know, your friend could be right, but i don't think that he is. my senses are all i have to experience the world (the dream world as well). if i can't trust the only means i have of experiencing the world... then what's the point ???




Last edited by oneiromancer on Sat 28 Feb, 2004; edited 3 times in total
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tapir
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

I´d say it isn´t true, simply cause I know what it feels like to dream about being lucid.
What your friends says happens to me quite often, but it simply isn´t lucid dreaming, it feels different. Our actions aren´t of importance for wether a dream is lucid or not, the important thing is our state of mind.
Perhaps he has experienced these as well, but no "real" LDs so far?


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Mike716
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

oneiromancer wrote:
two questions:

has your friennd ever had a lucid dream ???
have you ???


I have had quite a few lucid dreams, my friend hasn't had any.

Everyone here has brought up some good points. Thanks for all of the responses.


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DreamAddict
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

Dr. Steven Laberge proved the reality of active consciousness in our dreams many years ago. It is mentioned here:
Lucidity.com FAQ

REM can be used to send signals to the waking world, and that is just what he did. All sensors and machines showed his brain in the sleeping state, but his eyes sent "morse code" type signals to the waking world.

Stanford University has conducted many controlled experiments with Laberge for over 20 years, and has logged over 1000 of his lucid dreams. The doubt about the validity of lucid dreams has been pretty well removed.


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pav
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

You can doubt if that's really you in the dream - but it's because you are much more "stupid" in dreams; our brain activity is near the waking life state, but it doesn't actually reach it. And it seems that memory doesn't work very well.
But you can be REALLY aware of your state and implications of the fact that you're dreaming. It's what we call lucidity, and it can be low or high level. When you have real LD (not a low-level one) it's very close to the waking life.
And after all, dreams seem real to your mind - it's only a question of where your "data" about surroundings comes from - your senses or yourself. So even if you don't have any control, it's still much fun - flying in LD is as good as flying IRL could be.


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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

Tell your friend to have a lucid dream. The kind of consciousness you have in an ld is so different to a regular dream, the feel is so different, that clearly they are genuine.

I got a couple of skeptical friends to try it and they came away as pleased with their ld's as I did.


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Mohegan
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PostPosted: Sun 29 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

Quite frankly i don't really care what your friend thinks (that sound rude wasn't meant to) Had he ever actually had an LD then i would be willing to hear him out, but since he's saying it's not real yet has never experienced it firsthand then his argument has no ground to stand on.

To me that's just the same as saying Austrailia doesn't exsist because i haven't been there. While i'm not discounting the possibility he is correct i am just not willing to take seriously someone who has never experienced that which they are trying to disprove.


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stranger
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PostPosted: Sun 29 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

your friend hasnt had a lucid dream? then how the hell would he even know what its like?

Ive had LD's, so I know and am 100% sure, that you reall do have control of the dream. This is because you dont think the same way in a LD, than in a ND. You think differently, more logically.

In a LD you know you are dreaming right...So your friend thinks, that in a dream that you know you are dreaming, you are dreaming of KNOWING you are dreaming? lol sounds crazy,

-stranger


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DreamAddict
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PostPosted: Sun 29 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

stranger wrote:
In a LD you know you are dreaming right...So your friend thinks, that in a dream that you know you are dreaming, you are dreaming of KNOWING you are dreaming? lol sounds crazy,


well, that does happen. We call them "False lucid dreams." It's not rare to hear stories of dreaming about lucid dreaming AND not be lucid. hahaha, confusing but true. wink
Lucidity is marked by an obvious increase of awareness, and the wide scope of perspective we are use to when awake.


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stranger
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PostPosted: Sun 29 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

Hi DreamAddict,

I never thought of it like that! although can you explain with an example?

because i dont fully understand how its possible

thx!!
-stranger


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PostPosted: Sun 29 Feb, 2004  Reply with quote

Quote:
i can tell the difference between the two.

Yes, I think that when you awake, you can know that you had an LD, because you felt the feeling of thinking, more than acting (as is in normal dreams).



Current LD goal(s): Remember dreams
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