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ReythInitializing Systems
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Posts: 99
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Last Visit: 04 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Wed 18 Jan, 2006 |
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I happened to read the Tibetan dream yoga last night and they address the issue of not being able to get to sleep!
They say do two things:
1) Exercise until tired
2) Eat nutritious food
So I did 4 sleep transfers last night. The 4th one I could tell was going to be one of these long drawn out ones so after doing the headstand and being up for 5 mins and laying down, I got up ate some cheese and yogurt and then did a second headstand.
I started following my hypnagogic imagery. At first I was chasing a dog, then I had a knife and was following a man who had attacked me.
Then I fell asleep like a baby!
The dream I had was very vivid, extended in length and very exciting. I was driving towards a train and had to leap out of the car and swing on a cable some 30+ feet above the ground. Man it was fun!
So I think the increased vividness is good. I just need to get it to be lucidity.
Sorry if this message is too long.
Reyth
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58 |
Posts: 91
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Last Visit: 27 May 2007
Location: Yeadon, PA
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| Posted: Fri 03 Feb, 2006 |
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Gee, and I thought WBTB meant "waiting by the bedpan." No wonder nothing happened. Oh well, time to change techniques...
I do think there's some advantage to wbtb, especially since I wake perodically anyway. I just find quite varied levels of grogginess when I do. However, because of my schedule, my best results have always been around 3:30-4am.
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| Posted: Fri 24 Feb, 2006 |
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I'm glad you gave those tips, Reyth! I tried doing WBTB for the first time this morning, but with no success because I'm so bad at falling back to sleep.
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25 |
Posts: 40
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Last Visit: 18 Jul 2006
Location: In Front of Computer
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| Posted: Sun 26 Feb, 2006 |
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If I want to preform a WBTB and I don't want to do it paired up with MILD or WILD then what is the best amount of time I should stay up after my alarm goes off?
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23 |
Posts: 536
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Last Visit: 27 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon 27 Feb, 2006 |
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what are you using with WBTB with? You need to use it with something...
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Posts: 262
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Last Visit: 26 Aug 2010
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue 07 Mar, 2006 |
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I had enormous success with WBTB and MILD last night! (Well, enormous success for someone who's only been interested in lucid dreaming for about a week.) I did a little MILD as I went to sleep and used autosuggestion to get me to wake up after dreams. Around 3:30, I awoke and remembered some NDs. I wrote them down, read this thread and a few others for fifteen minutes or so, and went back to bed. While practicing MILD again, I suddenly remembered another dream I'd already had and got up to write it down. Back to bed, more MILD. (I envisioned myself noticing strange details in previous dreams and becoming lucid; I also spent a while focusing intently on the image of my dream journal.) This time, I fell asleep and had my first "real" LD.
It was incredible. I performed the nose-plugging LD in the dream, and it worked like...well, a dream.  Even after that, I had a difficult time convincing myself that this wasn't real. It was far more vivid than any dream I'd ever had. But it was a dream--I saw my dog who died months ago, I walked through a pane of glass without breaking it, I breathed through tightly shut nostrils, and I made the sky change colors at will. Sadly, I woke up before I flew. I was so intent on changing the night into day (for better flying visibility) that I never got a chance to actually take off.
The weirdest and one of the best experiences of my life. I can't wait for another! 
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22 |
Posts: 263
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Last Visit: 28 Sep 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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| WBTB + WILD, How long up? |
| Posted: Thu 09 Mar, 2006 |
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<mod>merged into the BIG WBTB topic</mod>
I was wondering when anybody WILDs (With WBTB), how long do you stay up for WBTB? Do you just awaken yourself mentally a bit? Do you actually get out of bed? What do you do? This is not a "OMG WHAT TO DO", I just want to know what other people do.
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26
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Posts: 2050
Joined: 31 May 2003
Last Visit: 30 Jul 2010
LD count: hundreds
Location: Australia, ACT
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| Posted: Fri 10 Mar, 2006 |
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there is a huge sticky on this topic, but i ussaly get up n get out of bed. do somthing like get on the forum. well i used 2. for like 20 min then back to bed n try it. but wild keeps me up n makes me stay awake! so nto my fav tech
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23 |
Posts: 536
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Last Visit: 27 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun 12 Mar, 2006 |
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If you fall asleep easily, you can get up and stay up for 30 minutes. If you have trouble falling asleep, you can just wake up and re-enter a dream right away.
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22 |
Posts: 263
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Last Visit: 28 Sep 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun 12 Mar, 2006 |
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Why would you want to stay awake longer anyway?
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24 |
Posts: 11
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Last Visit: 14 Apr 2006
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| Why does WBTB work and questions about REM sleep? |
| Posted: Sun 19 Mar, 2006 |
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Why is it that WBTB works well for so many people? What exactly happens when you do WBTB? I'm familiar with the process but how does this work in terms of your actual dreaming? Are you sleeping lighter because you've been up for an hour and so its easier to become lucid? Or for the people who do it only for a minute and then go back to sleep how does this work? Also are REM cycles always (ignoring outside factors like alcohol or drugs) 90 minutes long? And does this begin from the minute you lie down to go to sleep or when you actually fall asleep? So if I want to set an alarm to go off 90 minutes into my REM cycle should I set it for 90 minutes after I lie down or 90 minutes + however long it will take me to actually fall alseep? Basically I'm just confused about REM/sleep cycle, how long it last and when exactly dreaming occurs and how this works with WBTB or alarms or lucid inductions that play after you are already asleep?
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Posts: 5272
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Last Visit: 01 May 2012
LD count: 181
Location: At the foot of the Pyrenees
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| Posted: Mon 20 Mar, 2006 |
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I don't think it's clearly explained. This empirical technique has been created from lucid dreamers observations who claimed they had more dreams in the morning and during morning naps.
I think you have to distinguish between WBTB used with WILD and WBTB with DILD/MILD. On the Lucidity Institute website, they assume that "the best time to directly enter the REM state is immediately after having awakened from it". This has to do with dream-reentry technique and WILD. Moreover it seems you can WILD out of the REM-sleep phase. Thus you don't have to wait for a long time before you fall asleep again. But when you practice WBTB+MILD, you have to wait 45 minutes. This is just statistical results.
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| Also are REM cycles always 90 minutes long? |
Don't confuse REM sleep phase and a full sleep cycle. A full sleep is always 90 minutes long. At the end of the sleep cycle, you have a REM sleep phase which lasts 5 mn in the beginning of the night and may last 45 mn at the end of the night.
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| And does this begin from the minute you lie down to go to sleep or when you actually fall asleep? So if I want to set an alarm to go off 90 minutes into my REM cycle should I set it for 90 minutes after I lie down. |
When you go to bed, you generally enter very quickly the sleep stage 1 which is the beginning of the sleep cycle. Thus most of us put their alarm on a multiple of 90 mn after they go to bed.
Dreaming occurs during the whole sleep cycle. But the "best" dreams are those of the REM sleep phase cause they are more scenarized and it's easier to recall them. Generally, when people recall dreams, they recall REM-sleep dreams.
I hope I replied to all your questions. I'll merge your post in the BIG WBTB topic.
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Posts: 599
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Last Visit: 13 May 2013
Location: Otterland
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| Posted: Thu 23 Mar, 2006 |
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For me it is explained that way:
WBTB is a forced way of opening your "dream enclosure". You can wake up and remember them, start thinking about it and realise when it happens again.
But the question "Why is it easier for most people?"
That's just like i said, that forced way of remembering may work even when you cannot can induce thoughts to your mind.
Maybe caused of stress, bad memory, tiredness, bad concentration...
I've mentioned it here.
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Posts: 26
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Last Visit: 14 Jun 2007
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| WBTB time |
| Posted: Tue 02 May, 2006 |
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Hi, I've been having major troubles with WBTB lately, I'm trying to find a good time to wake up in order to go back to bed effectively. Usually what happens is that when my alarm goes off for WBTB I end up not being able to fall asleep, despite feeling extreme fatigue and being rather relaxed, and not moving very much.  Any help and suggestions would be great, thanks!
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31 |
Posts: 419
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 23 Jan 2009
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue 02 May, 2006 |
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Usually WBTB is best after 4 or 5 sleep cycles ( a sleep cycle is 1 hour 1/2 ). I, personnaly do it after 3 cycles ( about 4 hours 1/2 ), so I am still tired.
If you really have trouble falling back asleep, maybe wake up after only 3 hours of sleep... That should do it. 
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