Valerian & Melatonin

Hi. I was reading through some of the other threads and it seems no one mentione valerian or melatonin. Is this because they are not good for LDs or because no one uses them?

I have a little formula I call the Dream Weaver, but I don’t use it all the time. At dinner I take some B-6 and about an hour before I go to sleep I take some valerian and melatonin. This works well when I do it but others would have to kind of experiment with dosage because too much of either valerian or melatonin will just conk you out.

I have found valerian and melatonin to be an excellent combination for lucid dreaming, particularly melatonin. As a matter of fact, my most remarkable lucid dreams have occurred when I’ve taken as many as 7 or 8 3 mg melatonin tablets and a couple of valerian root capsules. I have read several things on the Web about melatonin being associated with lucid dreaming.

It’s funny you should mention Valerian, I was just doing some research on it for other reasons.

Are you sure its safe to be taking it though? I told my doctor about it last visit and got the thumbs down…although its natural it should only be used for insomniacs or other medical conditions…unless lucid-deficiency-disease (ldd) is considered an illness…plus its a herb and used to frequently can cause insomnia, craziness, and other baaaad symptoms…

Scientifically speaking I have come across two studies where they were using it on insomniacs, in one case it did not cause any dream related effects but in another it greatly improved dream recall…some food for thought…

I agree with Atomic_Dragon about being cautious with valerian. When I do use it, I’ve learned to strictly follow the recommended dosage on the bottle label. A few times when I took an amount that was several times the recommended dosage, I had the most unbelievably vivid, terrifying nightmares that I’ve ever had… If used at all, I think it’s best used judiciously!

Clientsurfer, your philosophy on Valerian is wise, and should carry over to the use of any plant. Valerian is more powerful than valium, and it’s a plant to be respected.

If you use val. by itself, you will most likely just sleep solidly since it’s such a great sedative. On the other hand, adding b6 and melatonin is helpful because they stimulate the cns and activate the production of seratonin, which is really helpful in lucid dreaming (see the l-hydroxytryptophan faq two forums ago. LOL)

Valarian is like unlike other sedatives in that if you DO overdose on it you will spike in and out of rem a lot during the night… presumably (read: I’m guessing here) because your body is fighting the sedative effect. This would be especially true for people with hypoglycemia (low blood glucose levels) since their metabolisms seem to be working in reverse 75% of the time anyway.

All that being said, I’ve never heard of a single case of serious overdose where valerian is concerned. If anyone else has, please post same.

I did not realize how powerful valerian is. I took three tiny pills (totaling 150mg) and was pretty shocked about the effect. As soon as I took the pills, my head would get very dizzy and everything would start spinning around…I also began to sweat heavily this night…KILLER!!!

Hey Atomic, good post. I can verify Valerian Root is quite a relaxant. I have posted previously on Calea and having no effects on lucid dreaming, however Valerian Root does help me sleep. Although no improvement on dream, vividness or otherwise.

You bring up a good point on its safety. If you really think about it, it is extracted from plant material. It is merely a “concentrated” substance. Many extracts, herbs, and even FOOD are this way; merely concentrated substances and we put these into our body. Now if a person can put two-plus-two together, a concentrated substance can throw your body chemistry out of balance, an easy explanation, plain and simple.

I am not saying these herbs; vitamins, etc are BAD, that is not the point. I think of it this way, do I really need hormone replacement, vitamin replacement, or any concentrated replacement because my body requires it? I personally do not because of my proper diet, health, etc. However, I do experiment. Health, body and mind are a balancing act, this is reality, period.

P.s. and it is funny to think of certain foods as concentrated substances, extracts such as sugar, oils, certain fats, concentrated frozen OJ, etc. Makes you think.

I have been using “tha root” for a couple of weeks now and I have had no negative side effects to speak of. Matter a fact I an quite impressed with it’s effectiveness. I am a day sleeper because of my job. I work the graveyard shift and it has been a challenge for me to get a solid 7-8 hours of sleep during the daytime. I would normally sleep 4 hours then I would wake up and be unable to go back to sleep for hours. This would cause problems because once I do go back to sleep I have a tendency to over sleep.

Since I been taking “tha root” I have been experincing solid sleep with very vivid dreams. Melatonin has some draw backs… Your body does not release “Mel” until it senses there is no light present. (hence night time) And because I sleep in daylight Mel has been limited help to me. Matter of fact when the sun does go down the Mel stored in my body kicks in at full force and when it is time for me to wake up for work I am grumpy as a bear. But “tha root” puts me to sleep within 20 mins and I do not wake up with that “hung over” feeling. I do want to stress that I stay within the reccommended doseage. It is pretty powerful stuff.

Other than it has a very strong odor and you MUST take it with food, I have had no problems with it. If this changes you guys will be the first to know.

Actually, I think there is quite a lot of talk about melatonin, just use the search function at the top of the page.

Got a few questions about valerian root:

1.I tested some sleep tea with valerian in it, but I didn´t feel any effects.Is there something like immunity to it (like it seems to be with calea), or are these regular sleeping teas just on a very low dosage?

2.Can it be harmfull for your body?

3.Is it addictive?
Of course you could get problems going to sleep without it if you take it regularly, but is it physically addicte, like opiates for example?

And at those who overdosed:
How much did you take, and did it always need to nightmares? Did you also have physical problems with your pulse or something?
Got to say that I am even a bit interested in vivid nightmares…

thanks :smile:
tapir

Ok, I tried it.
The medical description said that there are no known side effects.
I used pills labeled:
valerian extract (4-7:1) 48,0mg
abstract substance: Methanol 45% (V/V)

(edit: can someone tell me what extract (4-7:1) 48mg means exactly?)

Recommended dosage is 1-4 times a day 3-6 pills.
I waited until evening, took 3, waited an hour, took another 3, waited for another 30 mintues and took 2.
Additionally I took vit B complex for the first time (16mg B6)
Getting to sleep wasn´t any easier than usual.During the night I awoke several times and lay awake for an unusual amount of time.Some dreams remembered, but I was very tired when I awoke and didn´t write them down, since they didn´t seem very vivid or interesting anyway.
The next day I was tired, probably due to my awakening during the night

The next day I took the same amount of vitamin B, but no valerian.I got to bed VERY early (about 7pm) and slept for a little longer than 10 hours.At the end of the night I had a very vivid and emotional dream, followed by my first LD within more than two months

tapir

Last nite, i took two Valerians and one Melatonin. I also took a Vit B complex. I had a wonderful nights sleep but zero dream recall. I think that Valerian promotes deep restorative sleep and keeps you in the Deep Sleep Range for most of the night. Maybe I should consider taking Valerian and Melatonin on seperate days. I also combined this with the LaBerge Interview. It didnt work during the perliminary nor the WILD stage. I dont know what happened during WILD, i just sort of drifted off. :neutral:

-Crowe

Had another two tries with with valerian root extract
Seems like it has little effect on me, and if it has.
Only things that I noticed were less-restfull sleep and bad dream recall, don´t know if it was really the valerian, though.
Anyway, nothing about vivid nightmares or relaxing effects :sad:

tapir