They did. My best friend wrote a 2000 pages thesis on LD, he had 100 subjects. There is a whole chapter about intermediate state in his work. He discovered the thing several years before me and used the same name.
In literature, what I am speaking of is well documented under the terms “low astral”.
How many dream diaries did you read ? Are you really interested in other’s stuff ? It is reported in many places, but you have to see it.
The reality you see is a mental construct, you know.
I know. I speak of OBE, because many people don’t agree with you. If I say WILD, OBErs will say I am not speaking for them, if I say OBE, LDers will say I am nuts. So I say “intermediate state”, and nobody understands.
Never.
I feel you lack information about other people’s experiences. How many other’s dreams did you really read ?
Just a technical question : have you been buddhist ? What do you know of buddhism to tell this ?
Same technical question : what do you know about mental construction ? About mind ? How much time did you spend to this ? Would you say that you know mind better than a monk who spent 30 years in a cave ?
Don’t take it badly, but I have the feeling that you are talking about things without experience. Really, how much can you know about LD with 33 LDs ? It makes no sense.
Laberge doesn’t mention it on his site or ETWOLD. I read a set of papers on LDing but there was no reference. I googled Laberge and low astral
and there was no result.
I’ve read a lot of diaries but I didn’t encounter this yet…
Reality isn’t just a construct but a construct based on actual sensoral perception.
“many people”? I don’t believe that a survey was held on this, please be serious.
Ok medications might have effects such as nightmares. It is not as farfetched as you think.
On the other hand you are wrong about what I’ve read. I’ve read most of the dreams posted in the dream diary section of this site as well as others such as fishbowl, sealife (my team), most dreamviews and some from LIF.
Your link wasn’t to a diary.
I did find references to ‘intermediate state’ - in one it meant the state of LDing (with no problems I might add), and in another it was a reference to a connection between waking and sleeping memory. Of course not everyone agreed to the latter.
A reference to a paralysed ‘intermediate state’ with monsters when the person was a child: alt.dreams.lucid
had a reply that the state was likely HI.
Another reference called the state of WILD, ‘intermediate state’.
Cardinal Ratzinger wrote on the difference, I read what he wrote and I read a lot about buddhism too.
I take 2000 years of experience with God in the Church to be much better than 30 years in a cave. God is not a created being thus not a mental contruct. God is the prime mover/creator. We’re talking about more than mind, you know.
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I don’t take it badly. I do have experience (besides LDing) which you don’t know of, excuse me. Now since you want to bring this up, you’ve posted here how many times, around twenty times and how many times have I posted here? close to a thousand posts which much more than you. Not that I want to brag about posts - if you post once and say something interesting, then that’s well. But you must expect somebody not to see things in the same way as yourself or not to believe all you write. (eg. the getting objects from dreams thread some time ago).
Besides, how many LD’s did you have? How can one know whether what one writes is the truth? One might write that one had a thousand LD’s and it might not be the truth. Plus, how important is number?
Hi,
What you think about religion will not change my life, so you were right saying that we should forget the subject.
I am serious.
Search for “OBE” you will find so many people being sure that it is different from WILD that you cannot count them. So, I consider they are “many”.
You will not find “intermediate state” in google, but you will see it in dream reports, if you know what it is.
Now, I have no need to convince you. You are on the other side of the planet. Many people are on the other side of the planet (will you ask for statistics ?), many are totally insane, many are not, and what ? I am sleeping well. Billions of people are not sharing my point of you, one more, one less, no problem.
Let me just say I enjoy your posts. I think you give us a lot to think about. Let me just tell you that not all LD ‘res will think you are crazy because you talk about OBE. This is a very open forum generally speaking. In fact there is a OBE section on this site. I personally have never had a OBE though I have never really tried either. It is something I do want to experience at some point. Please feel free to say what you mean. If you mean a OBE you do not have to say WILD. I think that will help with the confusion. Most experienced LD ers know the difference and I do think there is a difference. A OBE is definitely different from a WILD. I have had discussions with people who OBE it there are some definite differences.
I am curious when you refer to the void are you referring to the time before and after dreaming. Like if I were to do WILD and remain conscious between dreams. Is this what you mean by the void or are you talking about something completely different.
Once in a dream I found myself floating in this black nothing, I was drowned by an incredible sensation of infinity. I could even hear or maybe feel a low drone(of empty, infinite space), which kind of passed through me, terryifing but awesome!
I couldn’t think or move, I just floated,paralyzed, for a while and woke up…
I can still savour the memory of feeling stranded in the middle of infinity… Being in the center of so much empty space. At the same time it was unsettling because this terrible sensation of being completely exposed washed constantly through me.
Hi Milod,
In fact, my experiments and the buddhist practice led me to think that the actual models are not pertinent (do OBE exist or not, is it the same thing as WILD etc).
In fact I would have to write a complete article on the subject, which will not be easy.
That’s why I am using WILD with LDers who don’t believe in OBEs, and OBE with people who believe in it. I have no opinion about the reality of so-called OBEs.
But for sure there are different states in the REM-sleep.
Yes, exactly, but this void is something in itself. It is in fact a black dream. That’s why it’s related with darks dreams.
A dream is like a 3D carpet. There is a weft (80% of the total energy) and a scenery (20%). What I call intermediate state is the weft. There, you have 20% energy available, that’s why you can feel vibrations and electric currents. Of course, you have many intermediate possibilities, “OBE-states” with 10% free energy, for example.
I would imagine it would. Most people I talk to who WILD do seem to think that a OBE and WILD are 2 different things. I have had many WILDS but have not had a OBE yet. I don’t know if your beleive that they are diferent as well or not. I believe that Buddhism teaches that there are many levels of conciseness (may not be the right word).
I know what you are talking about now.
Many people who WILD beleive that it is possable to dream in non REM sleep.
BTW- I keep promising you a link to the thread I was talking obout. I was busy and I forgot but, I will find it tonight. Sorry.
I can be lucid through all sleep levels and from my experience there are 2 black voids.
A small one and a big one!
the first is related to alpha waves and prob to the thalamus, the second witch is way more impressive and is related to delta waves and the brain stem.
So the first small one is between waking and rem sleep.
The second black void is under rem sleep and is a purely non rem sleep at the deep sleep stage.
Staying conscious through all levels of sleep is something that I am trying to learn. Even when I successfully WILD at bed time I always loose consciousness when the dream ends then, later become lucid from within subsequent dreams. I usually will have several LD in a night like this but, I have not yet maintained consciousness throughout the sleep cycle.
Ehm well that i never tested, not for a whole night.
Longest was like 20 minutes.
One reaseon is that being conscious at deep sleep is for a longer period of time a bit boring because its like your just eyes in a pitch black nothingess.
No sound no visuals, even if u try to create them or associate them or suggest them. That all doesnt work there because its not a dream level.
I did tests with me eeg machine and it showed that i went froma lcuid dream into deep sleep for 20 min then back to dream stage sleep then i tried it again for 5 min and that to was recorded on my eeg.
So theoretical yes it should be possible, yogi in the east claim they can do that.
Above deep sleep is dream stage, well that you know and under deep sleep i also have been and then u get all the effects ppl that when they have a real NDE. I tried that to and been there but thats a diff story but surely not boring!
She’s my Goddess !
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