Swedish study bashes European standard of living

Well, nobody I knows have a airconditioning and nobody needs it. Everybody I know could also buy one easily. Since I live in the north of Sweden, up in a city called Boden the wintertemprature sometimes drops below -40C, no offence now but I could hardly imagine a american tourist survive in that cold. If you want to know what sort of area Boden is in, it’s right on the north artic circle, the samt lattitude as Alaska.

Instead of AC, alot of people uses energy and heat from the ground and/or lakes. My family uses this and damn, we got so much spareheat we can easily have a 25C temprature inside when the outside is -40C, but well, the houses up here are built to withstand the cold. Since the subartic-climate we don’t realy need ACs.

And then, the most of the text is bs. The living standards atleast up here, is very good compared to the rest of the world. I’ve been to alot of countries and seen alot of diffrent things and honestly, I think Sweden has a better livingstandard then America. All the houses here are very good, almost every home has more then 2 computers and 3 televisions. And just so you know, the area of our ground with the house and everything is about 6000 square-meters. After some calculation that is 65217 feet on a family of four.

As I think you know, Sweden is a small country.
But we’re also a high-tech country. Everyone has everything.
That text is bullshit.

hmm again about air-conditionings… I think it could be compared to saunas that we have here in finland in every house… Like that might be a “luxyry” in states, but here it’s just standard thing. And vice verca air-conditions are very rare here cos we don’t really need those so that can be called as “luxyry” here, but there it’s normal thing that people have those…

In summer it can be even over 30’c and in winter it can go below -30c :smile:
… But average temperatures in filand are ~ 17’c in summer and -4’c in winter.
But offcourse it’s so very different temperature in south-europe than in northern europe.

And living standards here are pretty much same like it’s in sweden, and i would say it’s quite good…

Yeah, good point with the sauna.
It’s impossible to get a villa without a souna in Boden. :smile:

First, you have to know what you mean by Europe. The ways of life are very differents here, depending of the country, and it is obvious that French or German standards of living are very different from the Portuguese or Irish standards. I even don’t speak about Eastern Europe, which is in a poor economic situation. :help:

So it’s sure that

This point of view is really stupid. I’m an ingeneer in France, my annual income is about 24000$ and I’m not poor at all !
This study is directed towards superfluity. The examples are not very significant. For instance, I rent a 700 square feet flat (65 square meters, I hope I haven’t made a mistake in conversion) and I never would rent a 1200 square feet flat, because it’s to much for me (I’m living alone). And concerning climatisation, most of office building have it ; but in french houses, we have gas or electric heating, and cooling is not in fashion. So, the comparison between two different habits of live is not very instructive.

This study seems to me biased : perhaps is it biased by the big difference between urban and country ways of life, which is not taken in account.
In France, less than 5% of the population live in the country. The density of the population is very higher than in USA.
And perhaps this study is biased too by the fact that education and healtcare are allmost free in many western european countries ; and in France, 25% of the income goes to the taxes, before you have earn it ! So when I say my annual income is 24000$, before taxes it must be 32000$. And the way of taxing (direct, indirect, before or after earning money ) are very different, so it must be very complicated to correctly estimate and compare the global income in different countries.

On the other hand, if it’s true that 50% of the poor in the US have their own house, (in fact, it seems incredible to me :bored: ) be sure it is not the case in France ! In France, if they have their own house, they would not be called “poor” !

I think that number is an exaggeration. Yes there are some programs that help people who are poor get a house but, you must have a AAA credit rating ( something that is hard to achieve if you are poor ). Anyway the number of “poor” people who own a home is no where near 50%. Then again, I guess it depends on how they have defined poor.

I personally see numbers as nothing more than numbers. As someone who has visited the U.S., I see a large amount of individuals with poor priorities. I see people buying microwaveable meals that do not adequately maintain a proper level of nutrition (look at the U.S. obesity rates), yet own a 27 inch television set and pay 50 dollars a month for cable television. I see others who will spend 4-5 dollars a day on cigarettes rather than a simple 40 dollar fee to be a part of a health club. I see individuals who own two acres of land and litter it with lawn ornaments, broken cars, above ground pools, and a swingset for the children, but won’t set aside a 200x200 foot plot of land to grow enough vegetables to feed their family for at least two full months (for a four member family) (agricultural statistic… it would only cost 30 dollars a month to maintain, which is much less than what these people pay for microwave pizzas, 12 packs of cola, cases of beer, and the average gallon of milk every two days).
I see the U.S. as the first civilization to be able to afford and sustain a healthy way of life, yet because of the capitalist philosophies that earned this distinction, they are unable to do so because they are at the throws of consumerism.
The one thing I noted when I visited Europe was two things. Don’t have nearly as many clothes as Americans and don’t watch nearly as much television. I think Europeans have figured out that one only needs so many pairs of shoes and so many “chemises” or “pantalons” to make it. Plus, television is often wasted time when one can be learning a new trade, or maintaining the efficiency, thus lowering the necessary the amount of possessions necessary.
I realize I am making easily refutable generalizations, but I hardly believe that Europeans standard of living is lower. Plus, I am under the impression they have a higher population density than the U.S., which would account for the amount of land each individual owns.

Oh, it might also be worthy to note that I am a Taoist who aims for a fairly minimalist lifestyle. In my opinion, you can sustain a very healthy life on a very small income if you buy only staple foods, raw vegetables, eat only what is necessary (not until you’re full, the most common misconception in nutrition), read books instead of watch television (library cards are free), exercize regularly (a nice set of dumbells cost less than $100, running is free excluding $40 every four months for running shoes), and live in a respectable 2-3 bedroom apartment (where I live, fully renovated apartments are available for around $500 a month, which is only $6000 a year). As far as communication, phone lines are around about 27 a month, I am using the same computer I owned four years ago, and it still allows me to visit any internet site, use AIM, e-mail, word process, use Excell. Transportation, bicycle (rarely use my vehicle), only cost me $250 and I’ve been using it for two years (new tires and chain are the only upgrades I’ve needed). I do not live under the poverty line, but I do not live far above it, as I work in a coffee shop 35 hours a week, but I have never been in debt, and I’ve always been able to take a week and a half vacation to Europe every three to four months. I do understand that this is much more difficult for others since I am living alone (no wife/kids), but that is a small price to pay for a comfortable existence and living debt free. Oh, I forgot to mention, by staying in shape, I rarely have to buy new clothes (bought a suit two months ago, that was the last I can remember), and I haven’t had to visit a doctor in at least a year since most of my illnesses have been taken care of through heavy fluid intake, rest, and a week’s worth of Tylenol.

I generally dislike statistics. Especially statistics based on something that is an opinion such as “Standard of living.” Each person has their own standard of living.

For some people happy is not having responsibilites such as rent, bills or a job. They are comfortable on the streets living day by day, and they don’t want to change. That is their “standard of living.”

and then those that are happy with just enough to get by with modern luxuries such as house and transportation.

some have the money to live excessive, but their “standards” are to just live a meager life.

but some think happiness is living excessive or beyond their means, for these people their standards are much “higher” … but are they “better?”

I don’t think “higher” is a synonym for “better” in this article.

I don’t find it hard to believe at all that America has the most highest standard of living in the world. I’m not saying better, I’m saying that American’s expect to own the “newest” and “most” of things. A computer, telephone, and television for everyroom. Heck, many are expecting these appliances in their cars now.

This is all fueled by what you called “consumerism.” American’s are always “beating the Jone’s” sorta speak.
“if they have it, then I must have it.”
and then the poor cry “I’m so poor, give me some” and since the richer are upgrading to the newer model there are always cheap “hand me downs” to the poor to keep them supplied.
It’s just this cycle of “consumerism” that keeps manufacturing these luxuries to the masses, and everyone is expected to have them.

Being “poor” in America is living very very rich than other under developed countries.

Dream Addict: Yeah what that study tried to tell us was that “You think that you lead a good life but we have statistics that shows you’re wrong.” I mean even if they mean economical standard of living that’s still a false conclusion…

I can only speak for the average swedish person. 15-20 years ago the average “Svensson” had a standard of living second to none, it was way better than the average american for example. We have lost a lot since that time, but it is still pretty good.

We have health care available that everyone can afford. Even the most advanced (or latest) stuff can be done at the university hospitals. There is a problem with having to wait thought. All university and higher education is free of cost by law.

Infra structure is excellent, or even better than in the US. Flying domestic is fast and pretty cheap. There is a network of high speed (sort of) trains. Well developed broadband, 3rd generation mobile network (and GSM of course) and so on.

If you look in the average swede’s home you’ll find the normal rooms with the normal appliances. Probably a new 32" widescreen, or an old television. Most cannot afford stuff like bigscreen TVs yet in their living room. You’ll find at least one computer. IKEA furniture (but it works :smile: )

You will see a lot of old cars thought. And not many SUVs or trucks among the new cars. Perhaps because the gas costs about $1.20 a litre. That’s the only thing i can think of that is radically different here in terms of standard of living unless my idea of the average american is underestimated. Becasue i havn’t been to the US i’m just comparing to what i’ve seen on TV…

wow, Sweden sounds nice… how are the drug laws?

Is tv and radio censored?

The drug laws are harsh. The cops can search you and force you to pee. They can even shit in a special toilet if they think you have something “on you”. Steve-O did that when he was in Sweden.

The only things that can be censored are violent movies (luckily they never use that right in practise anymore) and racial or sexual hate. A minister got 6 months the other day for badmouthing homosexuals.

Seriously? What did he do, quote from some Bible passages or something? I don’t see how they can give jail time unless he made some kind of threats to people.

Oops i must have mistaken that with something else. The minister ‘only’ got 1 month. It was for a preaching held last July “about whether homosexuality is an urge or if it is evil power’s play with people.”

I don’t think the state wants to censor the bible. They want to censor religious fundamentalists and right extremists. Still it’s extraordinary in a democratic society i think. Maybe i should inform Fox News about it? :grin:

Well, I’ve been to america and lived there during 2 months. I don’t know, I think the swedish living standards are better. Not to brag or anything of that sort, we just seem to be more “luxury” :smile:

One note I want to add is that yesterday I saw on a show that a American that had been in France and got stopped by the police, drugchecked and everything. Then at the end he asked why the police stopped him, he said “Because we can” and all in the show started laughing and complaining.
Well, that’s the deal in Sweden to and I thought that this was normal in the whole world. The police can stand at the side of the road and take you in for nothing, making a check and so on.

Dreammonster: Visst är huggormar sämst?

Yay, somnilogist. :smile:

moppe, we do have the “right to remain silent” and police can’t just take you in without a “probable cause.”

However, just last week. In North Carolina citizens no longer have the right to remain silent. If a cop ask your name, then you must tell him or you are breaking the law. Before, you could tell the cop to “kiss off” if you were not involved with anything criminal. Now, you can be an innocent citizen taking your dog for a walk and a cop has the right to ask you questions, and you must answer.

Some people don’t know what the big deal is about this, and say that it only helped criminals hide. Although, I look at it as losing my right to remain silent … and just another of America’s rights stolen from us. When will Americans stand up and start saying something!!

Sounds like kind of a slippery slope…

Well, the politics in Sweden are fucked up.
So bad that it will never get good. The king just sold his name to a parfume.

Yeah it’s a practical law but i’m not sure if it is justified. Is it legal to do Hitler greetings in public in the US?

Huggormar? Har mest sett överkörda. Jag är sällan i skogen :smile:

Äh, stockholmare. :smile: Blev biten igår, alla på IRC hörde mig gnälla. :smile:

Ajdå gick det bra då? Ska man inte uppsöka läkare?

Bilder? :grin: