Male circumcision.

yes, I agree it seem backwards. Circumcision is standard routine here, and you must request to leave the baby uncircumsized.

For the thousands of years this has been done there has never been “anastesia.” . . . but wouldn’t introducing “modern anastesia” to an infant be another risk on it’s on. They do use a local anastesic that numbs the skin.

All of this is very well known by American mothers. Havn’t you been around ladies that compare their labor and birth with other mothers? American mothers do just the same when they talk about their baby boys.

Not a fair comparison. Tonsils or an appendix removal is not an old religious or traditional practice. It’s also not cosmetic and seen by others.
This practice has became standard here because the majority at one time expected this to be done. Now it remains standard out of tradition and cosmetic purposes.

I understand it may be shocking to some cultures. Just as it’s shocking to American’s watching a Vietnamese eat some puppy dog. Or some African tribe ripping all of their new teenage girls hair out.

but, it’s normal here.

yes, the human animal has strange rituals and practices. This may be one of America’s strange practices, but shame to all that use this as an excuse to insult Americans.
We are humanity, and have only adopted this practice from our other human brothers and sisters. We are all equals.

My personal oppinion - No form of opperations should be done on any child UNLESS they are neccessary.

unneccessary opps should only be performed by the request when the person getting the op is an adult.

I think performing any unneccessary opporation on anyone who hasn’t personally asked for the op is an infringement of human rights.

Doesn’t make it humaine though. I could go out and kill people because other human brothers and sisters have, doesn’t mean it’s humaine.

People eat dogs, that’s normal. We are omnivorous eating animals is natural, some people don’t agree with it because they are little puppy dogs - we also have people who think killing/eating any animal is wrong.

Mutilation of peoples bodies isn’t natural, it’s not human nature either. It’s human habit doesn’t make it right.

But some cultures do these things, forced curcumcisions on their children, pre-aranged marriges. An other part of being human is accepting that other cultures do things that we may think is sick, brutal, weird etc. and that we can’t change them and thus must live with it.

The “operation” is as simple as an imbelical cord being cut. Deciding if it’s necessary or not is a matter of opinion. Some think the small pox vaccine is unnecessary, but what do you think?

“How well it(circumcision) works?”

-“Risk of cancer of the penis and circumcision”

“Several studies have found a slightly lower risk of STDs, especially HIV, syphilis, and genital warts (HPV), in circumcised men”

You can’t call it an unnecessary operation for some people.

You also can’t believe that doctors are stealing babies from their mother’s arms to castrate their penis. It’s absurd! :happy:
Especially in modern times when people look at American’s as “Sue happy” and ready to sue McDonalds because their coffee is hot.
Don’t believe the hype. Sure, most people take the decision casually and don’t give it much thought. But it’s not like the doctors are like “Congratulations! It’s a boy! Oh look over there! an eagle. points and passes baby away to be circumcised

“To Circumcise or Not to Circumcise?” - webmd.com
If you read any article please read this one.

It has became so casual it’s not as covered as it should be, but parents still make the decsion. If someone chooses for or against circumcision they shouldn’t be seen as brutal and primitive. There are reasons this practice still continues in medical fields all over the world.

I personally like being cut. Gives you longer “stamina”, I dont have to worry about infections and such, and it still feels awesome. I dont need anymore nerves. It also doesnt look like a trunk.

so, because it has been done for over thousands of years this somehow makes it OK?

what about the pain of the operation then? infant is old enough to have this done to him but too young for proper anastesia? After the local anastesic i imagine there will be a lot of after pain, which you cannot treat because you cannot give painkillers because he is too young!

ah ok, that reliefs me a little, they do use a local anastesia. i thought it was done without any form of pain relief.

yes but it is an operation nonetheless. just the fact that the penis is such a handy dandy exterior thing that can be operated upon easily, it doesnt mean it already needs to be done at birth.

i dont agree with the cosmetic part. I also dont agree with old religious part.
in the old relegions circumcision is a ritual, it is a celebration where all the family is present and where the circumcee [heh] himself is awaware of the fact that this is very special and in most cases wants it to happen.

circumcision in many cultures is seen as the entering into manhood and is done as a “rite of passage”.

cosmetic: cosmetic is a matter of personal and cultural opinion. In ancient china little girls feet where bounded so they stayed small. the men at that time considered it extremely sexy and female, the women undoubtely had a lot of pain and could barely walk.

let me get this clear, i dont disapprove of circumcision itself, but i disapprove of the fact this is being done at bith. I think it should be done when the individual himself (or herself) can make their own free decision on whether they want it done or not.

also, i think by doig it at such a young age the risk of damaging “the goods” is bigger.

well cutting the umbelical cord is necessary, cutting a small part of the penis is not. you yourself said it is mainly done for cosmetic reasons.

in my opinion it doesn’t make it necessary to do it on babies.

i can fully understand why ppl think this is more efficient or better than doing it at a young age.

but it also implies it should be done, you even say it yourself, like cutting the umbelical cord, it is necessary to do! and i think that is not good.

i also think it is very bad that only a small percentage of mothers is asked!

they should be informed standard to make a decision!

it can ALWAYS be done! doesnt have to be at birth! it is not like you missed a big opportunity to do skip it at birth.

I was taking a Human Sexual Behavior Psych class in college, and the norm for most American’s is to go ahead have the circumcision, for various reasons.

Some men and women feel that an uncircumcised penis isn’t as attractive as a circumcised one. Others feel that the child’s penis should be the same as the father’s penis. Still other’s claim that from a medical perspective, it is more sanitary and easier to clean if a male has a circumcised penis. From a sexual perspective, the theory is that if a penis is more sensitive, wouldn’t that mean that the penis would be more likely to ejaculate sooner, which most men (feel they) suffer from premature ejaculation already. Unfortunately, there’s no way to clinically study premature ejaculation from circumcised penises vs. uncircumcised ones.

This is not the same in Europe, where circumcision is a dying practice. Luckily both my parents came from Europe and decided that I should keep my foreskin. I don’t think I will ever give my infant son’s away to this type of torture either. Although, it is interesting to find out how more women feel about male circumcision? In that psych class in college, the majority of people (both male and female) were pro male circumcision.

So ladies, what do you think? My previous girlfriends didn’t seem to care either way.

what disgustes me, is that this is forced upon kids… i think they should wait until the person is old enough to decide for himself if he wants it done… And this post is by no means aimed at americans, cause the same thing is being done in many other countries aswell…

The main article I pointed to addresses why it should be done earlier the better.

From my perspective in my society, it would be much more cruel to wait for the child to be old enough to be aware of his penis. You must understand, that the majority of males here are circumsized. The majority of males here would prefer to be circumsized! Therefore, why wait until your old enough to remember losing part of your penis, and remember the pain? Very many of us are very grateful that this is done at birth.

We do use anatesia now. We have came a long way during those thousands of years and that was the point of that sentence. That even without anastesia circumcised men grow up to be healthy and have healthy sex lives.

A child is old enough to have this done the moment they are born. The child usually goes to his parents or home shortly after. Any mother knows if the child is in pain. The pain is quickly over and actually the younger they are the quicker they heal.
If the child was left in a form of unbearable pain the mother would know. Our mothers are no different from your own, and if a mother really thought this would cause their child great pain the practice would not still be going on to this day.

don’t agree with it being cosmetic? or religious?
I suppose you would have to live in this culture to understand the reasons.
Living here I can’t find many more reasons other than cosmetics.
As for religious, just because we don’t setup a bah mitzvah style party doesn’t mean some don’t do it for religious reasons. With the procedure done right at birth and in a hospital, it is much more safe and efficient.
Although, I don’t agree with that example.
I think it’s more culture defined by religion that makes it so common here. At one time it was religious, but over the years it has became commonplace and expected of all males. Just because it has lost it’s relationship with religion in the hospital doesn’t mean religion didn’t play a part. Religion is what taught us about circumcision.

Funny you mention that. I was going to bring that up myself. :grin:
The ladies wanted this themselves badly, even at the expense of walking without pain. It was attempt to “be beautiful.”
The same can kinda be said about circumcision in Amercia because most here think an uncircumcised penis is ugly. Although most circumcised men will agree, this procedure doesn’t criple them in any way.

I totally disagree. If it’s going to ever me done, it MUST be done at birth. For very very many reasons already covered by the above article. The risk of complications and infection increases with age, the pain increases because the penis is more developed, the damage increases because the penis is more developed, the psychological impacts are increased because the awareness if more developed, the cost, the recovery time. Every risk and complication grows with age.

Many of the protest against circumcision you have read from holy reality, are from older men that had circumcisions. The younger the child the more efficient the operation.

They ARE asked!! The article’s poll was about the information provided when the doctor presents the question. Instead of the doctor asking “Circumcision? Yes or No?” the article is pointing out the doctor should give reasons for and against circumcision when he ask the question, and not just ask the parent “yes or no.”
Doctors expect the parents to educate themselves about the effects of circumcision, but it seems from the article that doctors should be prepared to educate them before they have to ask the question.

I understand the arguments made here by each of you. That an infant has little choice in the modification of one’s own body. I can easily find myself on your side of the debate.
However, I’m going to assume most of you are either uncircumcised or female. Besides Holy Reality, Where are the debates from the circumsized males? Shouldn’t their opinion be the only ones that really matter?

Atleast the person would have a choice over his own life then… Also as you see from the orginal poster, not all people are happy with being circumsized, but i guess they dont matter at all?? Also if this was banned, then i doubt the majority would go through with this operation at a later state, and then it would probably be way more accepted to not be circumsized aswell.

I am sure the baby experiences a great amount of pain afterwards aswell, the only difference is that they dont remember it later on…

This things should be voluntarely, not forced upon people…

And btw… why is female circumsizion so cruel, when this also done in quite a few countries aswell, as a tradition? I dont see much of a difference here… Both should not be done, unless the person want it him/herself, which means it can only be done after the person is old enough to know what he/she wants.

Think about this aswell… If a country had as a tradition to cut of their kids finger, would that make it okay aswell? where is the line drawn?

There is not much for me to add on the topic.

Circumcision has:
trandionally
culturally
religiously
comsmetically
and medically made itself into practical living.

It is PROVEN it is best done as soon as possible, at infancy.
If a child is old enough to choose if he wants it, he is too old. And how old is old enough to chooose? 18? 4, 7 , or 9 year olds can’t make such a decision. Waiting 1 year is removing most of the benefits of circumcision. For it to have the best benefit it must be done at birth. Waiting is useless and by then shouldn’t be done. Parents must make all decisions for children until they can make their own.

American doctors DO take the most precaution with pain and risk reduction at a higher standard than all of the previous thousands years of practice.

If cutting off a pinky finger were to have this historic backgroud with included proven medical benefits, then American’s would probably resemble the Simpsons even more.

Some people are not happy with brown eyes, and some people don’t like their vagina or healthy uncircumcised penis. Lots of people are not happy with their body, or life in general. It’s not circumcisions fault.

My greatest argument against this thread is the authors intentions with it, and the reactions it took. I’m a person that is totally against abortion at all cost, even rape. I can see each of your arguments against a person’s right to chose. … . but why is this, circumcision, being used as slander towards Americans.
Circumcision is best done young, and parents have the freedom to chose for their young son.
IT IS CHOICE!
why debate that?

It seems relativly unimportant when compared to:
American children abducted and being sold on the black market overseas, Child prostitution in Cambodia, and there is this much reaction over what? A faster organsim? More sensation during sex?? because some don’t want their sons to clean smelly “cheese” from their uncircumcised penis their whole life to prevent cancer from themselves or their partner?

It’s appalling to see the excuses people use to slander America. Reading over this thread I can just hear people’s pencils adding to their “another reason why I can tell American’s I hate them” list. and that is exactly why this thread was created.

oh DA i dont feel that way, that it is another reason to hate americans.

i understand now why it is done. And i understand why ppl have decided to do it at a young age. Yes ofcourse why wait to later if you can have it over with at a young age.

I also thank you for clearing things up a bit from the first post. when i first read it i was totally shocked.

it is just another reason to ponder. A possibility to have.

BUT i do think that everything has an up and a down side.

for me, i still think that ppl should decide it for themselves. And what is old enough? well, what about adult!

But then again i can also imagine adults having it done, discovering all the advantages and deciding if they ever have a son they want to give those advantages to their son and as early as possible.

the problem is that if you have been circumsized at birth you have never known better. So i can imagine that you like it the way it is and are happy with it. Wouldnt have it any other way and definately wouldnt have it done at an older age.

but those who havent had this surgery and see circumsized, they cannot imagine how that feels.

I am still not convinced circumcision is necessary, but after all your arguments i see why - if you think circumcision is is a good thing - you can probably do it best as early as possible.

lol… omg. you guys are pathetic. I am circumsized (sp?) and glad to be. It is very unatractive IMO to have all that nasty skin that makes your penis look like a turtle poking his head out of his shell for the first time in 10 years…

That stuff was probably written by some guys angry at their parents for not having them circumsized as infants and they are made fun of by women and are afraid to have it done now… lol (jk)

all i gotta say is… it didnt happen to me, sex still feels GREAT and im not complaining. :wink:

hey and circumsised or not, at least we don’t have to give birth…

owwwwch!!!

it seems to me that the pro-circumcision people on this thread have a very aggressive/violent way of communicating about this subject. that should say enough by itself.

The thread here does touch on a horrible sitiuation related to circumcisions, and that’s mistakes during the procedure. The casual decision of circumcision is a problem, and the risk with possible mistakes involved could be life altering/destroying. 1 such mistake a year should be enough to enrage everyone.

but please don’t believe the hype. Doctors don’t sneak such a procedure by the parents, and there are pain reduction methods. Circumcised men aren’t “crippled” or sexually handicap, and the amount of mistakes are not high enough to cause alarm.

lol. I wasn’t being aggressive… just stating my opinion with a voice. I am just saying… I didn’t have a choice to be circumsized. i just was… and I have no problem with it at all. no complications, or malfunctions. So, therefore, since i have no problem with being circumsized, i am not against it. because i find nothing wrong with having it done.

as I read more of the posts I find the people saying “how dare they inflict such tortue on infants! oh my!” what a crock. I was cirrcumsized as an infant and i don’t even remeber it or it even hurting. there for, who really cares? I didn’t realize that there were actual mistakes going on and babies actually dying from it… kinda weird. i don’t see how they would die unless they bled to death. but as for the pain factor, It didn’t hurt me one bit that i remeber. :content:

hahaha
i wouldnt never let anyone get near my penis with a knife
ev0r…
just common sense really

Does that make it okay, just because you forgot the pain?? If that is your reasoning, then it must be ok to torture people aswell, as the pain will be forgotten/lost when they are dead anyways… I am not against circumsizion at all, i am against that people are forcing this onto people, without asking what they want… Adults can go through with this procedure aswell…

The medical benefits can be argued, cause most of these studies is very biased… if you read around, you find that there are loads of info both against and for circumsizion.

Agression? I don’t see much here, but I welcome you to pick through this entire thread and present every sign of agression you find. For me, I find the agression in the replies of the people against circumcision.

So, are you now concluding from a two page thread that circumcised men must be more violent too? I live in a town with 1 murder in the last 10 years, and you are calling us aggressive now too?

and I’m suppose to just sit here and believe all this, when I’m an American Male living through it. I have a voice with credit towards the topic, and I speak here only to counter balance the debate.
There is nothing aggressive about standing up for what you feel is truth. I’m not going to sit here and watch this thread not being spoke for. I’m sure most people wouldn’t give this silly thread time, but I can’t let such an image be painted upon myself and America.