I am not against it, but like all treatements, they should be used more responsibly.
There is a little problem when people say that it is forced upon them. I could easily say that some babies have cristening forced upon them. I could say that it is unfair to the child, and that they should be able to choice their own religion. Yet we happily accept cristening without complaints.
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
likelihood
No, I disagree.
She meant keratinization. I beleive this is an infamous word for the harding of the skin. Like at the edges of you toes etc. Try “cornification”
Bleading comes as a result of very, very freuent masturbation, but as you develope your skin become tougher (especially on your body), and so the bleeding ceases to ever happen.
"Bleading comes as a result of very, very freuent masturbation, but as you develope your skin become tougher (especially on your body), and so the bleeding ceases to ever happen.
I am not sure who to agree with."
hence desensitization!
you cannot say NO to that, it’s a fact, it’s plain and simple! anyone play guitar? I do… my fingers are 100% different than they used to be before playing… whereas they used to hurt like hell and sometimes bleed they are numb and calloused, whooohoo!
(this is a desired effect in this case)
SAME DEAL WITH YOUR WANG!
i dont’ care what you say you cannot deny that there will be desensitization due to the elements of friction and lack of lubrication and constant exposure to clothes, dryness, etc.
I mean… it’s just COMMON SENSE
the problem is we have no way to compare, we don’t know what it’s like to be uncut, we might think “hey i’m sensitive” but in reality it couldn’t be further from the truth, this severely bothers me.
I didn’t list the cons for you guys to necessarily say “nope I’m fine” I listed this to show the the benefits of circumcision (what benefits in this day and age? not many) outweight the potential irreversible harm done to the penis.
and umm this is not something I think I could ever talk to to my parents… i’m not “open” with them, and I’m not sure why, partly through some stuff I went through in middle school that really warped me and turned me introvert… partly because I feel oppressed by their political and religious and legal views… like I can’t relate to them a ton.
Partly because they would always tease me about girls since you know, FOREVER and it really bothered me and made it to where even if I had a girlfriend right now I’d be reluctant to tell them about it.
so i mean they justed handed me a book about sex… no talking (thank goodness) … it’s something we talk about … we don’t even fucking you know, use profanity…
no sexual jokes, my brother’s too young… so i mean i’m open with my peers to a degree, esp online, but that’s not something to ever be mentioned around parents.
they did it for ignorant religious and traidtional reasons I assume though.
and I 100% object to infant baptizement and forcing into a religion too… totally… at least you can reverse that though… I was baptized, of my own free will though, I dont’ care, it doesn’t mean anything to me anymore, I mean… it’s not like baptizement involves you know, putting the mark of the beast on your head, putting a chip in your hand… altering you forever in an unchangeable way… etc.
HolyReality, if I were to imagine “chip in hands/mark of the beast” implanted into infants … It’s scary to imagine my arguments about the “well being” of children and the choices parents take for them used agasinst me.
Chip implants for pets are marketed with fear of loosing their pets, and it’s been said human implants for kids to help with abductions … scary thought. “it’s a slight discomfort for preventive maintenance” eck!
I looked up the definition of “keratinization”
-"The conversion of squamous epithelial cells into a horny material, such as nails. Also called cornification"
NO, I didn’t add the word “horny” [size=75]makes note to also looks up the definition of “horny”[/size]
My penis has NEVER looked like hair or fingernails! … or the bottom of my foot, or a callus on my finger for that matter.
I don’t play a sting instrument with my penis, nor do I step on it when walking. God bless those that do.
I have played Bass guitar, and I do know very many guitar artist. The fingers are pressed very hard into slim course metal strings. Eventually they do grow tough, but they can still feel with their fingers or get tickled with a feather on their feet. It is much tougher than before and less sensitive, but this cannot be compared to a penis.
The glans or head of a penis does not encounter such stress to cause “keratinization.”
Wow, lots of info here
i dont agree with it and i think there should be lots of material out there that gives both the pros (from the looks of it not many) and the cons so that parents can make a decision based on what they believe.
In the end it is upto your parents, i dont belive it should be made illigal because the child is the parents responsability and im all for a libertarian government that allows everyone to make there own decisions.
I can say that i am SO SO SO SO glad me mum had the sense not to ask for it, here in New Zealand its not a commanplace thing anyway.
Thank you, sme_bro. This is how I feel. I searched out information that wasn’t readily available (sort of like I have to do now to find out what my government is really up to) and make my own decisions about it (despite the disapproval tossed at me by friends and family…um again…sort of like now). I read stuff and talked to people about circumcision back in the day. Gasp!
In the end, it came down to one simple fact: I didn’t want one of my infants’ first experiences in this world to be one of severe pain. Most of you will make this decision for your infant some day. Somewhere inside, to some degree, you will feel this thing that I felt.
I know only a bit of how people see this in other countries. I thank you all for being so willing to discuss all sorts of things in this forum. Namaste.
I feel I need to say something more. I want to say that circumsised males and their parents should not feel guilt or shame or less than or any anger about this subject. Remember, I had to insist (loudly) and was made to look stupid and sound stupid when I tried to talk about it. I was hurt and extremely annoyed, but more than those things, I was stubborn and determined. Dh was complete support and that made me so much stronger.
Other mothers I’ve talked to have said the dads didn’t want the son to look different from himself and other boys “in the locker rooms” (BIG sports factor in USA). The mothers didn’t put any effort into wanting to be made to sound stupid (hello), so they just agreed without really thinking about it. “Everybody does it. You have to sign papers not to have it done!” Not everyone has support, not everyone knows where to look for information and…yeah…I’m pretty stubborn when it comes to love. Oh and dh says, “Besides, you don’t miss what you never had…why worry about it now?”
If it happens for medical reasons, well that explains itself, doesn’t it? How could anyone be upset about that? Can we say, Yea! I have one!?
BTW, I am writing a book about pregnancy, childbirth and newborns. This is for women who suddenly find themselves pregnant and without a clue. It has been interesting to hear the male points of view. Is there anything any of you, male or female, would want to see/say in a book like this?
I know compassion is the key and love is the treasure.
Interesting you are writing a book about pregnancy,childbirth and newborns.
Maybe you can take this topic into it to and write from compassion about it on an informative way.
I think it is good if ppl get aware that a lot of there so called individual choices are rooted and often made from there cultural collective background.
Because its not about judging circumcision, but about getting aware what freedom, compassion and respect is for that newborn wonderful child where you as a parent are responsible for.
What we need is not judging but knowing the truth that circumcision is not really necessary.
Because the lie that it is really better and necessary is the root for all of this collective behaviour.
With that knowledge parents will be able to make at least a choice not based upon a lie but from there own heart .
I think this all is about clear info for parents, info that is not coloured by our collective inheritance, coloured by ideologies from society, but based up on facts! And telling those clear facts to the parents instead of telling whats best for them to decide, because when u tell whats best u make a choice for them instead they make a choice for themselves and for there newborn child based on the facts.
Only then you give parents a base to make a honest choice from for what they believe is best for there newborn child.
Parents have then the freedom to fully be responsible for there kids and not let society choose for them.
So its about do we dare to let parents be responsible for there newborn kid themselves, by telling them the true facts?
Or do we want to let society make that choice for them by telling them not the facts but a subjective conclusion taken from the facts.
And that way make the decission for them in a way.
I personal am in favor for informing ppl the facts and then let them interpretate those themselves, and let them make there own choices else u take away from ppl there freedom and there own responsibility.
Are you the owner of a penis? Playing a guitar is nothing like a masturbation.
No. I didn’t mean tougher that way, I meant more resistant to damage. This still makes the penises skin very sensative.
Prehaps. That’s why it is important to wash and stay healthy. I wont deny it, but I have not experienced any loss of sensation.
Then what does it matter. Why are you against it?
YOu have to respect people’s choices. Telling them they are ignorant is, irronicly, ignorant of yourself.
[QUOTE]
My penis has NEVER looked like hair or fingernails! … or the bottom of my foot, or a callus on my finger for that matter.[/QUOUTE]
Lol. Mine neither. I let you know when it does though.
Holy, I think you are just getting irrational now, I mean you were cut 18 years ago just forget about it, as the great pumba said “Just put your past in your behind” and then Timon says “thats put your behind in your past, pumba”
well, since my current GF is a controling freak all signs point to NO!
GFs rules
Not allowed to look at porn
Not allowed to let another girl touch it
Not allowed to let another girl see it
all you people saying you can get over it are not having to take 20-30 minutes to get a ■■■■■■■ orgasm.
i thought of something interesting… having sex while uncut must be like having sex WHILE masturbating, right? Not only do you rub against her skin, you rub against your own, as it slides up and down due to the dynamics.
Jesus… what the hell, we really are ripped off here.
and it’s ridiculous to say you haven’t noticed desnseitization, that’s the point, you don’t notice it, it gradually builds up from the day you were born and goes haywire when you start masturbating, especially if you have to use lubricants and don’t have access to the stuff that is personally made for masturbation, have to use soap, etc.
do you think one day i was coming in 30 seconds and the next it took 30 minutes? umm… no… but it progressed that way.
don’t these two kind of contradict each other (being for choice but being extremely glad you weren’t knob butchered?)? I can choose to molest my children, that doesn’t make it right…
Maybe I should just choose to have my babies penis removed so it will never have sex because I suddenly had a revelation that the world is overpopulated and sex is evil, but don’t want to abort the thing because it’s already born.
YOU CANNOT HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MAKE THOSE CHOICES.
Think about it… what’s to stop a mother from circumcising her 12 year old son one day against his will and arguing it was her choice, she should have done it sooner… blah blah blah.
*it’s done against his will.
*it’s traumatic to no end
*it can never be reversed.
*it’s ■■■■■■■ painful.
you can argue “he can choose not to or say no”
DON’T YOU THINK THE BABIES ARE TRYING TO SAY NO WHEN YOU START ■■■■■■■ WITH THEM?
don’t you think an animal is saying no when you try to abuse it for fun?
god.
this is common sense. if you are going to let parents choose to circumcise their kids you need to let them choose to leave their kids in dumpsters, you need to let them choose to make them eat their own feces and live in the closet at all times. You need to let them choose how much food they get (maybe one serving a week will be good)
IT’S ALL CHILD ABUSE.
so my question is where do you guys draw the line?
one last example, should we inject girls with long term birth control shots so that they very rarely have their periods because “bleeding” is “unclean?” should we just give them full out histerectomys because there’s a chance that they MAY die if they happen to pregnant, just like you MAY get an std if you’re uncut… and plus hey they won’t have periods, and that keeps their hygiene up a bit?
child abuse
the non-accidental act of causing injuries to a child either by the parent or guardian, or allowed by the parent or guardian.
The emotional, psychological, physical, sexual or social abuse of a child including neglect. •Residence
Physical, sexual, or emotional violation of a child’s health and well-being.
– A condition in which children are victims of or at risk of neglect, abandonment, physical or emotional mistreatment to the extent that their safety is compromised. (kids can die from it, i’d say their safety is compromised, not out of medical necessity, out of “what the hell, we want him to look artificial like the rest of the boys”) google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& … hild+Abuse
and keep in mind the risks of circumcision seem to heavily outway the risks of being uncut given the acesss we have to anti-biotics and SIMPLE COMMON SENSE CLEANING.
Well you can die from taking just one aspirin. Yes it has happened. But, giving an aspirin to a child for a headache is not abuse. Everything in life has some potential for risk. How many newborns have died, had to have sex change, or suffered other ill effects as a result of the procedure?
I am not trying to make light of your concerns. It sounds like you were a victim of a botched procedure. I don’t have anywhere near the problems you mentioned above. It sounds like you were really injured and perhaps you should see a lawyer and find out if you are entitled to compensation for your injuries.
I said i dont agree with it, but there is also a line you must draw for who is in control of the child, I agree that it is a bad thing and it should not be done(conclusion drawn from what i have read here) but i think that parents should be responsable for the children, of course there will be parents that make the wrong decisions…but you have to hope that the majority of people will make the right choice.
You cannot rely on the government to control these things (which is what i am assuming you are getting at) it is unfair on parents who lose some of their control with the children.
I think you are very very passionate about this subject, maybe you should take the initiative and make up some brochures full of information to give to parents… if you want to make a difference start thinking bigger.
“I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education.” Thomas Jefferson
It’s a shame that our current administration never read this. We are told very little useful information in our media and I have to look outside the US to find out what is really going on. Sorry…off topic…sort of…
My point is that people should know all they can before deciding something that will effect an entire lifetime. Especially the lifetime of someone else.
You seem to be in a lot of pain in various ways, Holy Reality. Is there anything a dr. could do to help? Have you done any research about corrective surgery? Is there such a thing? I will investigate this, because life isn’t supposed to be miserable, right? I’ll let you know if I find anything that might help you.
I also understand your extremes about drawing lines. So many lines are being drawn in this country over so-called security matters, I’m starting to get paranoid. Twitch-twitch. It scares me when people are against abortion, but for the death penalty. Oops. Oh yeah, the topic…
yeah but aspirin does not cause deliberate suffering, it actually aleviates pain… circumcision is in the same vain of chopping a childs finger off…
that’s a very bad analogy. (i wouldn’t give kids aspirin though, wtf, they just need to learn to suck it up except for if they are in real bad pain, these people that take tons of tylenol everytime they get the slightest head pressure are going to totally screw up their pain receptors really quick… i take it maybe every 3 months …)
also, assuming they don’t die from aspirin, it is not a permanent unreversible affect.
but what gives, parents should be responsible for their children, their diets, whatever… okay… but why can’t I molest my kids? Maybe I like to go to a sex church and practice kama sutra, and I want my children to come enjoy it with me?
The laws line out child abuse plain and simple, international laws condemn circumcision, the government can and should say no.
If you want to disicipline your kid for being bad you don’t cut his finger off for stealing a candy bar… BUT I WANT TO! I think kids fingers should be cut off, they’d learn really quick! IT SHOULD BE MY RIGHT AS A PARENT.
Don’t you see the huge fallacy in what you are saying? A spanking might harm the mind a bit but unless you beat them regularly they get over it… circumcision cannot be undone, it’d be in the same light as cutting a childs finger off each time he stole something.
No one should have that right.
How can you disagree? Maybe we should take their appendixes out if they eat too much ice cream, a few days in a hospital should set them straight?
I mean I see what you are saying, but I think bodily mutilation (like giving infants breast implants, FYI, some parents are doing that) should be out the question.
amazing, things like that almost make me proud to be an American, I bet he’d single handedly kick the entire Bush administrations asses and have them tried for treason if he was with us today.
my only option is restoration, it’d suck having to hide the devices from my family and it’s not a quick process, it’d also be embarrassing to no end if somehow someone saw me with it on or de-pantsed me.
I’m not that bad, it’s at least half psychological…
careful, they don’t like it when you twitch, it’s a symptom of thought-crime.
anyway though i hate circumcision i’ve mellowed out for the time being, going back to school and partying (once) has kind of left me better things to think about… though i did manage to have a brief drunken discussion about this subject, their answer “yeah but it looks nasty”
How can I tell if I’m circumsized or not? From everyone’s descriptions, I’m assuming I am not. I think I even recall my father telling me they decided not to have it done to me because of problems that can develop. I’d ask but I’m a little too embarrassed. I’m very private with my body.
[edited]
I’m tempted to just suck it up and use Google image search to find out.
[EDIT: I used the image search and can say that I am indeed circumsized. That said, I can attest that I still experience quite a lot of pleasure from my penis. While I suppose it could be more, it’s still quite a lot from the least bit of contact. I also don’t care that much about sex or physical pleasure in my life, so it’s not that big a deal that I’m missing out anyway.
holy reality, it really sounds like you’ve been butchered. You probably should do everything you can in terms of restoration.]
“I also don’t care that much about sex or physical pleasure in my life, so it’s not that big a deal that I’m missing out anyway.”
that might very well be subject to change one day.
if there’s skin covering the head of the penis you’re UNcircumcised, if there is no skin around it, you’re circumcised, i don’t know why your father would tell you that if it was done to you anyway.
and it’s alright to ask, though you found out for yourself, i thought i was uncircumcised for a long time, i always thought “what extra skin, there’s nothing left to cut off! they can’t cut off the head, why would they do that? Man I’m glad they didn’t”
With nothing to compare themselves to, oppressed people do not realize they are oppressed. - Orwell.
I was just demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.
I am more inclined to agree with you that circumcision should not be done. However, I do not feel it is child abuse either.
Parents do not have this procedure done to purposely cause children pain. They have it done because they are told by doctors that it should be done for health reasons. If parent are provided with misinformation that is certainly an issue that should be addressed.
However, I have to say that I have not seen this long term damage you are talking about. I do not have any of the problems you mentioned and I don’t know anyone who has. Like I said above it sounds like you were seriously injured as a result of a botched procedure. You have every right to be angry.
I’m 16, you’re 18. Not much difference there. I have a girlfriend and we are active, but sexual pleasure is not something I wake up for. While it’s great and everything, I have other passions in life.
I can, however, moderately understand your position since you’ve been deprived of most all sexual pleasure. You have every right to be wanting more for yourself.
[size=75]makes note to also looks up the definition of “horny”[/size]
