Lol Paperdoll EP hahah it takes a few moments to get used to you but then you start liking you 
Welcome here!
You know me at Dream Views as Lucid Apple, here iam jeff!
Please read over this thread starting at the very bottom of Page 2. Icedawg did not apologize. He didn’t even address the concerns that we have presented. He only said we were not friendly and then left. We only need an explanation or at least an acknowledgment of our concerns. Thank you Nightowl for addressing those issues. This is what was needed. Goodluck to DV for finding those that abuse such powers. We can start now with a mutual respect for each other, and work together to keep these “rouges” handled so they can’t work us against each other.
Yes, many of you are making great efforts at resolving the misunderstandings. Thanks.
If we all have a mutual understanding and respect, we can stop these “rouges” in their tracks when they happen … instead of jumping to conclusions or some other paranoid theory.
kisses Paperdoll’s hand, and passes her a lucid muffin
Paperdoll!? the Paperdoll. the he/she Paperdoll? 
you do know we have our own paperdoll thread here on LD4all. 
passes Paperdoll a dud nuke
Thanks Nightowl, iam glad you appreciate what i did.
I saw this now go on for way to long so i just was very direct at Dream Views in your chat room and iam glad i was so open and direct to you all!
I gave it my best to overcome all misunderstanding.
I mean dont we all want this to be solved before christmas and the end of the year 
Jeff
Should I even mention that real knowledge is in your head, not number of stars or posts? 
Paperdoll - you got more then you asked for 
[/quote]
I disagree. Let it go, and as we develope respect for each other these concerns will dissapear on their own.
What did he have to apologise for? He just said he was suprised and upset that we have this view of DV. The concerns wern’t highlighted until after he had left. As far as I recall, he never said we were unfriendly. He said he envied LD4ALL for being so friendly!
He did say that it was out of our charecter to be hostile towards DV, implying that we were. He said it was fair enough that we denounce another forum to put ours on the sport light. Ironicly, in saying this he “denounced” our forum (no offense given/taken), and so follows his own view.
I’m glad to see the rival between LD4all and DV are getting solved. I also joined DV for two reasons: 1) I wanted to show them that I’m not against them at all to help them to realize that LD4all wants to get along with them… and 2) I was interested in it.
There is no reason why we should start our Dream World War I between us and DV. I like diversity… I really do!!! I hate it when people point their fingers at other because they’re from different origin or just are different than the ‘major’ group. Let’s just get along with each other… who know if we would benefit a lot from each other! 
I also wanted to tell Jeff how much I appreciate his effort to solve all of that! I’m so glad things will go better between LD4all and DV now on… hopefully. 
My hat off to you Jeff a.k.a. LucidApple at DV!!! Thank you again so much for your effort!
Let’s enjoy and have fun with lucid dreams… that’s what DV and LD4all are for!
P.S. To all people from DV… thanks for joining here to show us different side of DV that we thought we knew about. 
Welcome!
Thanks Dm7
Iam opening a beer now and eat some chocolate, its my birthday iam 39.
Its morning here at Amsterdam, i go sleep soon, then celebrate my birthday!
I hope that what i did really made a change for the better!
I hope so too! Thanks again!
Have fun with your birthday!
Maybe not for you, but it was needed for me and this discussion. We presented a list of concerns about DV, and in return we got no answers until Nightowl arrived. We would still be accusing DV of actively removing references to LD4all if someone from their Mod team didn’t speak up. Thanks nightowl and others. This is the start of a foundation of trust.
I couldn’t have trusted them if they hadn’t answered my concern about deleting references to LD4all.
Technodreamer, don’t ask me that question and then tell me to forget. I didn’t say he should apologize. Nightowl said he apologized when he didn’t, I was just being clear. I don’t think icedawg was initially interested in having a discussion here with us. Nor do I think he had intentions on helping clear this negative outbreak. I think he just wanted others to hear from the horses mouth that DV is a nice place to be instead of hearing different from others. Which it is, icedawg should be very proud and grateful for it’s many helpful members.
Oh I see. Yes, he certainly did help, didn’t he. 
It’s called being hypercritical 
err, sorry, i have this problem where i misunderstand people
I had briefly read over page 4 and i got the message that Icedawg PM’d Dm7 and said sorry for the “deleting incident” thing. I must’ve read it wrong. my bad.
Thanks, i just wanted to clear things up and hopefully answer your concerns. I didn’t really see anyone taking responsiblity for the “deleting incident” nor apologizing for it so on my behalf i apologize for what happened. I agree. trusting eachother starts here and hopefully no more misunderstandings will happen again(especially one like this that generated so much animosity between us)
To be honest with you guys, i had never heard of this “deleting incident” until now so this is news to me and i dont really know much about what happened. I just have one question though. did the mod delete or edit the Dm7’s post getting rid of the link or whatever. Also was the link that was censored in his Signature or in his post?
Nightowl, you are doing a great job, let nobody say something else, and i really appreciate you look into this with so much effort.
Mm Dm7 is now ofline, she cant be really long online everyday so we cant ask her right now.
The only thing i know from what she told me was that her post was edited, not erased and then the link was gone.
She will c your post tomorrow night and I ask here then to answer you!
Iam glad that you, like myself, choose for trust and being constructive.
Iam sure Dream Views is proud of ppl like Yourself and Seeker because those are the kind that make a forum a really good place to be a member at.
Thanks!
nightowl, I really do want to quickly put this behind us … the mood is just awful, and sick, like I’m gonna make myself grow a tumor. or some stomach ulcer if I keep talking about it … but I know it needs answered, so I’ll try to summarize from my perspective:
Hargrat posted his HILD technique at DV including a link back to LD4all where his initial thread of the technique originates. It was recently discovered that link was disabled, “disabled URL”
So over the course of a few weeks, people have witnessed Hargrat’s URL go
from:
https://community.ld4all.com/t/hargarts-induction-technique-log-hild/10708
into:
ld4all /forum/viewtopic.php?t=7446
One witness was DM7 and she posted a reply questioning why LD4all’s link was disabled, and included a proper link.
After icedawg made his post here on LD4all he deleted her reply to HILD, the “edited URL” was “re-edited”, and icedawg sent her a simple PM apologizing because he deleted her post.
Many people thought this was unfair LD4all links were disabled at all, and worth mentioning. Some people felt there was some type of “LD4all boycott” after refusals to add LD4all to DVs “List of useful Links” Some mods there use “LD4all” in punchlines as insults against us, and some mods that visit here are hard to trust now because of past experiences with some stray flaming “guest” post in our test forum. It’s too draining to deal with the drama. DV is a great forum and should be confident enough to leave links to ld4all and still keep growing at their impressive rate.
As a long time online lucid dreamer and LD4all member I feel a slap in the face reading a paradigm of another LD site saying “We are not like other lucid dreaming sites … Rhetorically, we attempt to extricate lucid dreaming from the ensnaring darkness of ignorance.”
This is easily overlooked, but combined with how LD4all seems singled out against at DV we feel like an enemy … and we feel spoke out against on the front page … and we seem to get an unusual amount of “DV fans” coming here to insult us to our face.
I feel there is a silent promotion that instigates this and I’m only speaking out against it to make it stop. Not because “I don’t like dreamviews”</whiny voice> or wish they would change, but because it is affecting LD4all negatively and causing an unnecessary disruption.
We are kind and friendly people, and we do stand up for ourselves and what we believe in. I think it’s in our best interest to promote appreciation rather than resentment. right?
I have created a topic hoping I will get posotive replies.
dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6998
If a mod dares cencors this link…!
And it brought me here. Im a Dreamviews loyalist…I only joined dreamviews a little over two months ago and went from practically no LD’s to having them all the time. At least one every week and often more.
But this site seems alright. Just the topics are a bit to vague for me, but Ill check it out for a bit and see if I might learn soemthing.
I wasn’t collecting links to show hoe DV is bad; I didn’t try to find that DV is good. I just wanted to give it a cursory look, and pick out a few things that surprised me. I wasn’t intending to say that a 13-year old is “inferior” nor did I even mean that “at that age people should be worrying about their education/grades/having a good time!”
I simply thought it was very unusual, so I linked to it.
(I’m 14 myself, nearing 15)
EDIT: Another thing.
About the people coming over here and trolling about dreamviews: (1 (which was originally posted in Shortcuts))
OH MY GOD! I clearly remember two new threads in, I think, the lucid lounge. They were, I think, one asking why ld4all needed donations (specifically comparing to dreamviews which “doesn’t ask for a penny” (not verbatim)) and another asking something-or-other-can’t-remember. These threads got about 6 replies, with various levels of niceness, and then pasQuale posted saying that the question had been answered and the topic was now locked. (which it was) I personally thought that was an odd reason to lock a topic, because even after questions are answered the topic is usually left open. I took it no further.
Now the posts are gone!
Anyway, the point I was originally trying to make was that we (I at least) want freedom of speech, but we should also remember that people own sites, and they have the right to modify anything within it. We shouldn’t go to dreamviews mods complaining about their members; they have no control over them. We shouldn’t go to mods asking them to change their attitude in DV posts towards LD4all; what do you think their reply would be? We can just leave it alone, and not keep touting here: “LD4all moderators do not mangle links to dreamviews, unlike vice versa!” and “we want co-operation with dreamviews, unlike some members over at dreamviews!”.
On the other hand, if you want to, feel free to carry on. 
The 2nd thread you are thinking of was titled “Why are people so touchy around here?” They introduced themselves insulting how pasQuale spells her name, how she runs her forum, and then shared only praise for DV. Some people replied and told him he had a lot of nerve asking a question like that.
After talking with a moderator at DV, it was decided to remove these 2 topics, because they did not shine a good light on DV or LD4all.
I hope this is what we are working towards.
A collaboration to stop these people from attempting to “recruit” others to the other board, or any suppression attempted to make the other board look “less desirable.”
As we grow even larger, these things will happen. Like Gameover mentions, many people are loyalist. Both communities just want to continue on their intended path, and with the least interuptions. We need to talk and be open with each other, since it seems extreme loyalist want to disrupt our intended path about sharing our dreaming knowledge.
R3mOt i hoped you would do this for some time!
It puts all a bit in a better light at least, and explains your motivation.
Good news for all Dream Views members and Ld4all members.
I mailed Icedawg and I just talked to him in person at the chat at Dream Views and he said he to wants to solve this just like we all do and he will post here to make that so!
Thats great to hear, Thx Icedawg and welcome!
(iam of to dinner now, eating thais in Amsterdam)
Jeff
We’ve all done a lot of talking. Have we sufficiently removed all of the damaged tissue so that healing can now begin?
Happy B’Day Jeff! Are you also one of the oldest members here? I think I am the oldest active member at DV (43 years old)