The Repetition Technique

Hi all!

I have been trying to find out, what it is exactly that is making me succeed in LD, when I succeed in having one.

I found out something when I trained with RC’ing. Let me first tell you my experiences from a technique that so far has given me succes almost 100% of the times I’m using it. If not exactly 100%! After the description I will try to formulate what I think specifically that is working…

It goes like this:

For some while ago, I worked with RC’ing. But I found, that I had great succes, if I did this:

1. Sleep 4-6 hours. Then get up for 5-60 minutes.

2. When you fall asleep open your eyes with certain time intervals (the faster you sleep, the shorter they should be) and look at your hand and count your fingers. (This is a RC - in dreams, there’re often more than five fingers). Then close your eyes…getting even more tired. Open eyes, count fingers. Then close eyes, getting even more tired. And so on… Suddenly you will count your fingers in a dream (which will often be a dream where you initially lie in bed!).

It’s that simple!

But let’s analyze: What is it, that is important in step# 2?

For one thing, I’m sure it’s the repetition, hence the name of the technique. But what more?

(Please notice, that you shouldn’t repeat like a mantra…it should be with certain intervals - for instance 1 minute or maybe 2 or 3 minutes, maybe even more if you are a long time of falling asleep - your intention to repeat, backed up with the concrete action of repeating, makes this work. Suddenly you will do it in a just begun dream!).

Is it:

1. The reality check
2. That you keep waking yourself up a little bit?
3. The physical action? The mental action?
   4)…?

Unless it in fact is a combination, I don’t want to just presume it is. It’s my goal (and has always been on various things) to SIMPLIFY. Do what works…and not a damn thing else!

I have a way to maybe check this:

What if I only opened up my eyes with intervals - thus waking myself up a bit? Not doing any RC’s. Would that be sufficient?

What if I made a RC with closed eyes, thus NOT waking myself up properly (unless you start jumping on the spot!)? Would THAT be sufficient?

Would it be sufficient to only repeat “I’m dreaming”, thus not making a RC, not making a physical action, not waking yourself up properly?
(I know this works sometimes, but I’m not interested in ‘sometimes’)

For anyone who want to try this, I would suggest you to do the COUNT FINGERS reality test while falling asleep (remember to count visually, because it’s only when you count visually, you have more than 5 fingers).

I will try to only open and close eyes tonight. Not doing the counting fingers. If this works, how great would it be? Inducing LUCID DREAMS by only remove the thin skin that cover your eyes for a few seconds! LOL!!

It could be cool - I imagine it like this curve. Out of the X-axis is time. Out of the Y-axis is how awake/asleep you are. Then the curve start high on Y (awake) and X=0. Then it moves out of the X-axis and down on the Y-axis. Then comes a little ‘jump’, where the curve moves slightly up (this is where you awaken yourself a bit). Then it moves even lower (all the while also moving out on the X-axis). Then a little bit up…then even lower. Suddenly you are dreaming (low on the Y-axis), and when you perform your awakening action (the jump on the curve) this is where you go lucid!

I can’t wait to try!

And for the newbies: Remember to sleep 4-6 hours before doing it. REM will then often start right away. When you go to bed first at night, you will sleep deeply without REM.

To summarize the point I’m almost 100% sure that is working like magic is the ACTION OF REPETITION. And I think it’s better to DO SOMETHING concrete than to just “think”.

Thomas

Wow, I haven’t heard this one before.

So, the idea is that when you enter the dream state, you will open your eyes and do an RC right away by looking at your hand? Uh… is it kind of like WILD? I’ve been going back and forth on whether or not it would be considered like WILD or not.

I’ll try this tonight!

Daysong: (what a beautifull name!)

You open your eyes while you are going to fall asleep, when lying in bed. When sleeping, you can’t of course open your eyes. But because you’re in a rythm of repeating the “open eyes, make a reality check” you will suddenly do it in a dream - THAT IS opening your DREAM EYES and make a reality check!

Does that clear things up?

Thanks Gjedde (Thomas)!
Interesting idea that of the eyes tech!

Didnt know if i ever welcomed you…so…WELCOME GJEDDE!

Greetz,
Jeff

Indeed a nice name Daysong. Nice avatar also, you like horses?
In Case i forgot to welcome you ever Daysong…WELCOME at the forum!

Greetz,
Jeff

Someday, Gjedde, I’m going to get the time to test all of these marvelous ideas you have. This’d be, what?

1. Look at hands for 10 minutes before going to sleep.
2. At even intervals while going to sleep, touch my fingers together with my dream counting, and on odd intervals open my eyes and count my fingers.
3. WBTB
4. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, Gjedde, that clears it up So it’s a lot like practicing RCs during the day, but you make it a habit before going to sleep instead. I won’t go any further, in case I confuse myself again…

Thanks for the compliments, guys Yep, Jeff, I love horses… Especially Saddlebreds!

/d.s

Jeff, Lucid Moderator:

Thanks a lot! I’m very glad to be here! Cool place

Dayson:

I also reality check by counting my fingers along the day. But yes, I wake up at night (then I’m closer to the dream state, when going back to bed) and make a lot of reality checks then, so I get into the momentary habit/flow of reality checking.

And ESPECIALLY when I’m back in bed (very important) I reality check, while still allowing myself to grow more and more tired and - at a natural point - falling asleep.

Update:

I’m still very interested in finding out, what exactly is working so superb, when I’m doing this (the LD-score is almost 100%).

Is it because:

• (By opening my eyes at certain intervals) I keep waking my brain up a little bit while still allowing myself to fall asleep. Of course I only wake/“arouse” myself a very little bit (at these intervals), because else I wouldn’t be able to fall asleep after all!

• I make a mental activity (like the counting)

• I make a physical activity moving my hands up in front of my eyes, which I open.

• Would it be possible if I made a reality check which only required mental efforts - like the: “Why am I here?” RC. Or do the RC need to have an element of sensory representation attached to it (seeing my hands).

• Or is it, as it seems on the surface, solely because of the basic idea behind a RC - reflecting upon whether you are dreaming or not

???

Question, questions, question ???
Unanswered, unanswered, unanswered !!!

Damn!

At least, the “counting fingers”-RC does fullfill all of these! So yes, whether what is at work, the “counting fingers”-RC does fullfill it. But I still want to find out EXACTLY what it is. Because then I’m able to remove the unnecessary elements - am I able to make myself clear??? I hope you understand me.

The counting fingers RC also fullfil other things:

• It is EXTREMELY easy to perform!
• You can always in a dream perform it!

Regards,
Thomas

Perhaps over a series of a week or so, you could do one or two elements at a time, I.e. move your hands in front of your face, but nothing else, or just open your eyes, or do RCs, etc. Or maybe we should just stick to what works.

One minor problem: I can’t see my fingers in the dark!

It was assumed in the instructions that you would have previously covered your hands in glow-in-the-dark paint before going to bed.

Hmm … I gotta try this one…
And with regards to not being able to see your fingers in the dark, perhaps that doesn’t kill the RC, because if you were dreaming, you would probably see your hand anyway or something else strange, don’t you think?

Peace,
Sruthan

Hey! I noticed this topic after I had written my bit about the arm-upright technique, and I decided to give it a try!

I didn’t actually have a ludic dream, but an interesting thing happened…

I had woken up after about 5 hours of sleep, and I lay on my side, with my hand positioned permenantly in front of me. I could see it because it was starting to get slightly light by then.

I opened my eyes whenever I remembered, and counted my fingers. Then an interesting thing happened. I suddenly had a very short dream about being stung on the hand by wasp or bee. Then, right at the end, at the borderline between the dream ending and me being concious again, I was totally aware that it was a dream, but then it all ended and I suddenly opened my eyes again and saw my fingers again.

I was really tired by that point and went fully to sleep though…

But that was quite interesting, that although I didn’t actually have a lucid, something strange happened, so it could be an indication that I might be on the right track yeah?

Ed.

P.S. I really like this idea.

Yes Ed…just some more training and you take your conscious with you in that dream.
But indeed it is a good sign!
I call this level…the training hours of recognision

Jeff

Thanks very much for the words of encouragement Jeff, my ld4all moderator buddy!

Ed.

Ed Case:

You bet you’re on the right track! YEAH!!!
Way to go!

You have done exactly what I have been trying to describe, and what I have done to give myself so many LD’s!

Congratulations!

Please keep up trying the technique out! It’s really powerful in my experience!

Thomas

Well, let’s see. I’ve eaten a lot of popcorn, I borrowed a book on Lucid Dreaming from the library (The Lucid Dreamer by Malcolm Godwin, the book that got me into LD to begin with) … and I will try this technique tonight. I usually wake up somehow four or five hours after I go to sleep… I don’t know why, but it’s handy. No alarm clocks. (FYI: my alarm clock is so loud and terrible it could wake up half the block). Usually I just eye the clock, turn around and go back to sleep (unless I’m going to do WBTB/MILD).

I’ll try this tonight and will report shortly.

Geez… I really don’t get it. o_O I didn’t LD, at all… even though I woke up twice and did the technique until I fell back asleep, after reading the book for about 15-30 minutes. Gah…

Hello all,

I thing the above method is working because of the following:

LD is a matter of consciousness right.
So if you wake yourself up a little to count the fingers, consciousness is involved.

LD is a matter of being conscious when you are dreaming. When you repeat the counting fingers trick, consciousness will come every time you do so.

When you fall asleep you will become conscious because that is involved in the repeat sequence. This means you are conscious but you can not see your hand. (sleeping right). You see a “dream hand”. Counting does not work in dreams so you will count 6 fingers in stead of 5. Because you are conscious you realize that you must be dreaming. LD kicks in

This means the mechanism involved requires repetition of consciousness (waking your-self a little bit up) And the RC counting the fingers. This is the whole thing so I thing nothing can be left out. (At the beginning of the REM state not to forget)

I think watching the clock in stead of counting fingers works also.

(By the way, I can see my fingers in the dark, just hold them close to your face or just install a little night lamp)

Does this make any sense?

Nukem:

It makes perfekt sense

I’m so glad that you so easily have been able to explain my idea. My deepest thanks!

Yes, that technique have given me so many lucid dreams that I can’t count them. I think it works even more powerfully when you at the same time intend to remember to make that “counting-fingers”-RC in your dreams (sort of MILD). And maybe it’s different how long you need to be up in the night (WBTB).

Thomas