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Opinion: Wild - Overhyped

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myechta_rukovodstva
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Opinion: Wild - Overhyped
PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

Hi All! I am writing a personal opinion that i have grown to feel from many communities of lucid dreamers.

I feel like in many places, Wild technique just seems sadly over-hyped. Now take note i say over-hyped, not over-rated. Nothing against the effectiveness or potential the technique has. However, it seems that a massive volume of inquiries from people who just begin the art of lucid dreaming all revolve around this particular technique... Analogously i like to think that LD methods are like medicine; everybody is affected differently depending on individual physiology, psychology, what have you. And that many people's opinions differ; feel free to swallow, don't swallow, you can swallow but do it naturally! lol. The thing is it seems like one of the more particularly difficult techniques to get just right for each individual. The result is somebody asking a general community for general assistance, where besides from a tip and trick or two, it seems the only advice you can truly take to heart is that you must take basic knowledge and craft your own path from it to fit you're own needs.
First, let's look at the positive's of Wild. Besides the use as an LD inducer.

- Learning sleep paralysis. Well, you don't actually learn it. It's a natural phenomenon. However, one that plague's a beginning Wild'er. What you can gain of course is becoming accustomed to it and finally conquering your fear of being paralysed, knowing it's induction quicker, and conquering that dreadful old hag lachgroen

-Hynogia. I like this little guy. I find some of the experiences i have with it downright fun occasionally. You may inadvertantly discover something prolific from the experience. And it's a potentially invaluable tool for Wild induction.

-Relaxation. A necessity for Wild. Also, helps a former insomniac like me better than a giant Trazodone (perscription of course tounge2) Who wouldn't like to be able to fall asleep deeply more effectively every night; if not for wild, then for good rest.

However, It still seems to remain as one of the toughest, yet most well known, technique available to us. Well, tough or easy, depending on who you ask about it. Sleep paralysis alone seems to account for 90% of Wild related questions. That seems to be the largest focus of people who need to ask for help on tech. When really, there's a wealth of information out there on tech outside of Wild for us to all explore.
Take a look at my favorite article, it discusses an interview with a Ukranian woman who has over a thousand LD's yearly. Wild does not seem to be a factor in that. What is? Lucid Living. What better to help lucidity than to live that way? Recognition is no longer a factor, it's how you already are at that point.

Another thing, why the fascination with wild in particular? Especially at the start of the night? You are going to dream tonight, why need to start off with a weak REM period? Why not master MILD and possibly keep the effect ingrained into your mind for all future dreams?

The biggest thing that seperates WILD from the other tech, in my opinion, is the difficulty. No, the technique itself may not be difficult for everybody, but it can seem so daunting when you inevitably view it as a hastle. Personally, before LD i would daydream everynight to help me fall asleep. Vizualization seems most natural. But Wild... oh boy.... stay in one spot, don't move until you cant feel you're muscle's anymore, try to trick your mind into thinking you're asleep... It's never wrong to put effort into you're work, but it is sometimes inpractical. For instance, Wild probably isn't going to happen under anything less than ideal circumstances. If it's summer and too expensive to turn the A/C on, you're going to be pretty uncomfortable. If you're not in your own bed when your staying at a friends house, it may feel unnatural. With the other tech you stand much better odds.

I hope to stimulate discussion about the topic. Mainly I believe the focus should be on all topics equally. There just seems to be way too much focus on wild nowadays... Granted it's a useful tool to have in your arsenal of methods, but why stick to keeping your focus on just one?


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KewinKiwi
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

I agree with your opinion. I practice various methods to increase my chances success. I did not immediately try to practice WILD when I first learned about lucid dreaming. I knew about it, but I decided to not read the guides on it. I practiced mainly DILD, and eventually some MILD as well. I was practicing lucid living. After about a year, I still had no success, so I decided to learn WILD. Within three months, I had my first lucid dream because of WILD. So although I agree with your opinion, I have to say that I find WILD a lot easier than lucid living (I now practice both lucid living and WILD). I do not find WILD easy, but rather I find lucid living much more difficult.


Current LD goal(s): Increase lucid dream vividness.
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myechta_rukovodstva
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

different strokes for different folks. you take the good, you take the bad; and when you do, then there you have... My rebuttal tounge2

I really admire your success with wild :D good for you man!

I've grown to learn choosing your own style is the first, and possibly largest step to becoming a successful, or god willing; frequent lucid dreamer. It's a tough journey isn't it? And i thought choosing my favorite brand of nice red wine was tricky meh I havn't had great success, which is why i'm trying to expand my horizons as far as what my path with LD methods should be.

I think the biggest issue is the presentation of wild. I mean, if you just discovered the whole concept of LD, and you were an eager beginner; doesn't it sound the most tempting? A first try quasi-instant LD. Then you realize you practically need your own personal Yoda to train you (nerdy reference, i know tounge2) and you ask these wonderful people on the website for advice. But the advice is just too much of a variable since you have know way to, how you say, measure a different persons lifestyle and the circumstances/preferences of which technique is right...


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vbflame
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

I never knew that people took lucid dreaming induction tutorials word for word. I just take the "good" parts out of a variety of techniques and throw them all into one technique which I shape in order to suit my own needs.

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dB_FTS
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

I agree with you guys and my opinion on this is that WILD technique seems, feels and looks very appealing to a beginner! I mean it's the only technique that "guarantees" you an instant and over night success, but in reality it's not just like that, right!

For a very long time I've been planning on making similar post but it would be much much more cruel. Beginners are inpatient, in general... I think of myself as beginner too and I can see how things work. The biggest problem I think is if someone comes to this topic through some other sources rather there own experience, like 9gag...

They just don't know what a lucid dream is and they are reading or watching those guides that "guarantee" you instant success and they don't want to hear more important things like: you need time, you need to practice, don't rush things, TAKE TIME!

Those are just some things that makes a little bit angry, ppl just takes things for granted they don't think with there own heads! And if they did experience a lucid dream they wouldn't rush things because they would know that it's worth of all the time they spend on achieving lucidity!

There I said it! grin ^^



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ZRVera
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

Exactly. I have LDs without WILD. I don't need it, but I cringe when I see 80% of newbies come into IRC with question about WILD, asking their questions as if WILDing is THE way to LD, and the only way. It disappoints me when I give answers to their questions, but also suggest trying something else (and I am not the only one!), and they completely disregard that and I see their continued failed attempts in the topics that I replied to (or in IRC). I WILDed once, and it was COMPLETELY different than I'd expected or how it is described.

But again, WILD can seem like a surefire way to get an LD to newbies, but it needs to always come with a reminder that it can be very tricky to actually accomplish, and I think most times it's either ignored or not emphasized enough.

It also bugs me that when told that WILD is best combined with WBTB, even with no successes yet, a lot of THOSE people continue to try at bedtime. It's as if those who HAVE succeeded still have no influence on what they think. If you're asking for help, please take it when it's given. meh You're NOT going to be different from everyone else and succeed at WILD right away or succeed at bedtime if you're not already succeeding at it relatively often.

I find RCs, MILD, and my personal goal journal (and sometimes WBTB) much more effective and reliable. I myself don't get much HH and HI, so it's not like I even see anything to help me out in WILD. I mean, a scenario might play out as if it's my imagination, but usually it's just my daydreaming getting deeper, and I'm not actually seeing them or hearing them.

Personally, I think it's a matter of how much people actually read (and how well they listen to what they read). I myself, even if I already know (or generally know) what something's about, like a game or forum/chat rules, I still read them. Why? I want to make sure I know what I'm doing. If I don't, I stay quiet unless I've searched and have not found an answer. I do my best to not be a someone who's asking basic questions because I haven't read. I would rather be reading someone's success story rather than their questions about something that's already been answered (and even recently answered).

When I first came here, I read the guide. I read most or all of the guide, even. Then, I found the forums. I looked around, but since I'd already read, I didn't really have that many questions. I poked around, commented a bit, and LDed. No biggie. I just wish I would see more stories like that. True, I'd had LDs before. That was how I knew I could have LDs by wanting them and I'd already kept a DJ at some points. I didn't even think of trying WILD at that point. I think it actually sounded kind of hard to me then, and still does.

But still, to some people, it looks like a surefire method, when truly, it isn't. Most times, either they ignore the warnings and whatnot that it can be very tricky to master, or it's not emphasized enough. Even direct advice gets ignored a lot. So really, I totally agree with the topic title.

Anyhow. *end of rant*


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myechta_rukovodstva
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

Hehe, glad you guy's have a source to vent now tounge2

I posted the topic to start some lively discussion, I didn't know so many people actually agreed with my opinion lmao!

Yeah, it really seems that when you look past the notion of instant gratification, you have the option of Wild, to go into an LD at what is scientifically known to be the weakest REM peirod of the night... or, you can learn MILD, DILD, & WBTB, and learn to recognize multiple dreams that night, chain them together, just because instead of putting yourself in one you know how to recognize them when you see them in the future.

Quote:
Personally, I think it's a matter of how much people actually read (and how well they listen to what they read). I myself, even if I already know (or generally know) what something's about, like a game or forum/chat rules, I still read them. Why? I want to make sure I know what I'm doing. If I don't, I stay quiet unless I've searched and have not found an answer. I do my best to not be a someone who's asking basic questions because I haven't read. I would rather be reading someone's success story rather than their questions about something that's already been answered (and even recently answered)


That's right, Zrvera! And the irony is the part of the forum that has that oh-so-often ignored search function XP


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dB_FTS
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

I am for newbies to learn WILD but they need to learn it not just performed it and then be in the zone with million questions.

WILD is my favorite technique and most of my lucid dreams were WILD. But it took me 2 years to finally get it right and even now I'm loosing the performance if I don't practicing it constantly. I don't say that's the time you need to get WILD going it was just me because I was learning and experimenting in the process with techs like MILD and WBTB not to mention DILD and DEILD or RCILD...

Whenever I would have different situation I would use specific tech or combination of 2 or more techniques and trying to make the best of an attempt... Like I said before, giving time to yourself and the tech is crucial, without that there is no real long term success!



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pnl
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

i cant say that i agree or i disagree because i am a newbie lachgroen. i think that WILD has an other problem, expept difficulty... in WILD you have to be fearless when you do it, or you will see scary things (if im wrong, correct me plz).. so many people including me, prefer the other techniques.. i tried twice WILD, the first time i slept, the second time, i was counting (inside of me), so after 20-30 mins, i started to hear sounds, and felt many bugs on me so i stoped!


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ZRVera
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2012  Reply with quote

WILD's not scary for me at all. I love it. Mostly cause I don't see/hear anything.

myechta_rukovodstva wrote:
That's right, Zrvera! And the irony is the part of the forum that has that oh-so-often ignored search function XP


Oh so true! Once, someone even told me that they saw a topic for something but made their own because the old one didn't have the information they needed. ... Well then, add the info/questions to it? But I mean really, people don't see/use the search. I use it here and there to find topics I remember. It does suck to see the same topics over and over, recreated in different forms because people don't search for what they need.


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myechta_rukovodstva
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012  Reply with quote

There's still a very hefty influx of almost the exact same questions being asked by different people... we do have an WILD FAQ, don't we?

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Bleant
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012  Reply with quote

People want quick success, after not succeding with MILD or a technique of the sort for a few days, they give up and look for a "miracle" technique. That happens to be WILD, so it is said that you can induce LDs at will, BAM, lucid dream. This is how they feel, so yeah, it's overhyped, but useful nevertheless.


Current LD goal(s): Have a two week long dream! (Longest one had two days)
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Apolo
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012  Reply with quote

Most of the people are using WILD wrong tho. They start at the beginning of the night for example. You have to use it when you wake up naturally and then you have to lay still and not move a muscle. Then it only takes a few seconds before you enter a lucid dream.

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ZRVera
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012  Reply with quote

Apolo, technically, that's called DEILD. It's very similar to WILD, but quicker. I will tell newbies of DEILD, but not WILD. I still recommend MILD and WBTB over that at first, though. I'd say to start DEILD after maybe a few LDs, but it's rather friendly to newbies. One of the main tricks is learning to stay still when you wake up, and not even open your eyes.

myechta, there's a big WILD FAQ (it should be in the quest for lucidity subforum), and though you think people would see it due to the massive number of posts (including misplaced ones) in that section, they don't (either that, or they ignore it because they don't want to read through it).


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Apolo
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012  Reply with quote

I tryed this yesterday but I didn't entered the same dream, I entered another dream lucid (wo was this a DEILD?). And Tim Post explained the WILD technique that way. tounge2

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